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How come an excellent weapon like the Pulse Laser is 0 points? Yet star cannons and bright lances are 15 points and above?

Probably because when it's available, it's never an option, so it essentially becomes bundled with the chassis.

If you look at the IG book, stuff like Earthshaker cannons are all 0 points, as they're only on a single model.

So when the option like a Falcon or a War Walker says it can have any Heavy Weapon, that does not include the Pulse Laser, even though it is classed as "heavy"?

Sy2pie wrote:
So when the option like a Falcon or a War Walker says it can have any Heavy Weapon, that does not include the Pulse Laser, even though it is classed as "heavy"?

I don't own the Eldar codex, but I'm gonna bet that that's not how it's worded at all. Instead it's going to say something along the lines of "Pick a weapon off of the Eldar Heavy Weapons list" which is an actual list in your Codex, and that list does not contain a Pulse Laser - even though it's profile says that it's type is "Heavy 2" or whatever.

Its extremely limited on what can take it, so those vehicles has the cost built into it it, its very inconstant just like always.

nekooni wrote:

Sy2pie wrote:
So when the option like a Falcon or a War Walker says it can have any Heavy Weapon, that does not include the Pulse Laser, even though it is classed as "heavy"?

I don't own the Eldar codex, but I'm gonna bet that that's not how it's worded at all. Instead it's going to say something along the lines of "Pick a weapon off of the Eldar Heavy Weapons list" which is an actual list in your Codex, and that list does not contain a Pulse Laser - even though it's profile says that it's type is "Heavy 2" or whatever.

Truth.
Look at the section preceeding the army list, on the page where it discusses the Path of Command ability is a sidebar with various weapon lists.
The pulse laser is basically just on falcons and crimson hunter (and exarch)

Sy2pie wrote:
So when the option like a Falcon or a War Walker says it can have any Heavy Weapon, that does not include the Pulse Laser, even though it is classed as "heavy"?

You don't get to pick any weapon listed as 'Heavy'. Page 79 defines the "Heavy weapons list" you can pick from, which does not include Pulse Lasers.

Basically it's 0 point when it's compulsory option any model using it always has and cannot change to other. On similar style check volcano cannon...0 points. Obviously it is NOT free but price is built into shadowsword price.

 Polonius wrote:
Probably because when it's available, it's never an option, so it essentially becomes bundled with the chassis.

If you look at the IG book, stuff like Earthshaker cannons are all 0 points, as they're only on a single model.

Right.

I wont rate the weapon as ''excellent''.
The bright lance is an excellent weapon as its damage potential is higher.

 Polonius wrote:
Probably because when it's available, it's never an option, so it essentially becomes bundled with the chassis.

If you look at the IG book, stuff like Earthshaker cannons are all 0 points, as they're only on a single model.

Hence why the complaints about Hurricane Bolters being too cheap were unfounded.

The Pulse laser is the compulsory weapon for the Falcon and Crimson hunter. It is only available on these 2 units and is never swapped for anything else.

So the PL has a 0 points cost because its cost is already paid for by the Falcon and CH.

If other units could take the PL, there would be a points cost association.
It is the same with the Prism cannon, which is also a Heavy weapon, and only available on the Fire Prism, therefore its points are also 0.

When a datasheet says a unit can swap its Shuricannon for "a Heavy weapon" is specifically means those listed in the Heavy weapons list. I.e. Bright lance, Missile launcher, Star cannon or Scatter laser.

 wuestenfux wrote:

I wont rate the weapon as ''excellent''.
The bright lance is an excellent weapon as its damage potential is higher.

Technically, the damage potential is the same. A BL can do a max of 6 damage, while a PL can also do 6 (2 shots, 3 damage per shot)
But I agree the "potential per shot" is higher for the BL, meaning you need less rolls to actually hit and bypass saves (the later of which the BL is better at due to AP -4)

-

 Galef wrote:
Technically, the damage potential is the same. A BL can do a max of 6 damage, while a PL can also do 6 (2 shots, 3 damage per shot)
But I agree the "potential per shot" is higher for the BL, meaning you need less rolls to actually hit and bypass saves (the later of which the BL is better at)

-

So we have 2 shots with flat 3 vs 1 shot d6...Okay -4 AP but 2 shots>1 shot and 2x3 is obviously higher average than d6. Even if pulse was 2 shots d3 damage it would be better(AP difference excluded).

Pulse laser>bright lance without doubt.

It's also an option on the Hornet (from FW), but don't have that book to check out the price there.

 Quanar wrote:
It's also an option on the Hornet (from FW), but don't have that book to check out the price there.

The hornet pulse laser is listed as 30 pts, but that's because it can be changed out on the hornet chassis.

The Hornet Pulse Laser is a different weapon, with an associated points cost. It has lower STR and DMG but one more shot.

While the cost may be factored in, the price of a CH exarch is still insane. If you can't take it down in the first turn your gonna lose something or multiple things that are expensive

tneva82 wrote:

 Galef wrote:
Technically, the damage potential is the same. A BL can do a max of 6 damage, while a PL can also do 6 (2 shots, 3 damage per shot)
But I agree the "potential per shot" is higher for the BL, meaning you need less rolls to actually hit and bypass saves (the later of which the BL is better at)

-

So we have 2 shots with flat 3 vs 1 shot d6...Okay -4 AP but 2 shots>1 shot and 2x3 is obviously higher average than d6. Even if pulse was 2 shots d3 damage it would be better(AP difference excluded).

Pulse laser>bright lance without doubt.

Longer range on the Pulse Laser as well at 48" vs 36".

The only weird exception to all of this I can find is on the Phoenix Pulse Laser for the FW Phoenix Bomber, it's actually S9 and is "free" like all other pulse lasers but if you swap it out for a Starcannon or Bright Lance you have to pay for the options. Not that anyone will ever accuse the FW indexes of being well written.

 fraser1191 wrote:
While the cost may be factored in, the price of a CH exarch is still insane. If you can't take it down in the first turn your gonna lose something or multiple things that are expensive

It has a hard time killing a rhino in one go, so i'm not sure what you're getting at unless you're factoring in traits/stratagems?