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I like Hellblasters and Intercessors as new units from the new codex. What are others running?

I love the Primaris stuff, but the super-specialized old school space marine heroes are probably the top tier.

The stack bonuses innately and have a better stat line to start with. Its hard to argue against anything with a 2+ WS and Armor Save.

For vanilla Marines? Not much or more accurately not much without strong meta counters. Razorbacks with assault cannons are still good. Codex contempetors are still very points effecient. Quad Las preds are good if you have enough target saturation. I mostly look at FW units.

Quad launchers
Sicarans (both standard and venator)
Scorpius

I guess bobby g parking lot is still a thing.

Devestator Squads.

Fire raptors, aggressors, Bobbie G, assault cannon razors

Fire Raptors [/thread]

 Primark G wrote:
I like Hellblasters and Intercessors as new units from the new codex. What are others running?

These units do not work in a true competitive environment. As you have been told multiple times in the other competitive thread.

Calling this a competitive thread and beginning with intercessors has me feeling this is a troll thread. Additionally it offers no exposition, whether it be experience in a GT, nor mathhammer modeling.

The thread is essentially:

"hey guys i like this unit called marine it's competitive, thoughts?"

I believe it should be closed.

Lol Hellblasters are great with the stock Incinerator. It’s easy to buff the unit for rerolling to hit and wound, they have an effective 36", ignore armor and do 2 damage per wound.

Yeah, but they cost 300+ points w/captain support for 5 shots outside 15". That's not so great.

I run a squad of six less than 200 points. I think taking a captain is standard choice not dedicated to them.

If you want 2 damage per shot, you need a captain. Six hellblasters is 228, not less than 200.

When they super charge it’s straight two damage per wound.

You can't supercharge them without a captain. You'll cause almost as much damage to yourself as the enemy. Even with a captain, you can't supercharge vs -1 to hit armies.

Super charge doesn’t require a captain.

It basically does. Yes, you can do it without a captain, but you won't have a squad for long.

Ultramarines can burn 1 CP for a unit to reroll 1s.

You can't apply that to multiple squads, and that's only good for one chapter. My point stands.

Hellblasters pretty are good, but that dependency on the Captain (for those of us who are not blue favoured children) is quite limiting. You must blob them all around your mandatory captain. And against -1 to hit enemies they become pretty useless.

They don’t have to super charge and still a 6" aura is flexible.

Plasma isn't very good unless you are overcharging. Hellblasters are solid, but I don't think they are competitive at all. Compare to plasma scions and despair.

Martel732 wrote:
Plasma isn't very good unless you are overcharging. Hellblasters are solid, but I don't think they are competitive at all. Compare to plasma scions and despair.

Sure. But they're still one of the best units we have.

I'm not so sure about that. They basically fail against any -1 to hit trait. There are better overall options, I think. 30" range is very short for a heavy support squad, too.

Martel732 wrote:
I'm not so sure about that. They basically fail against any -1 to hit trait. There are better overall options, I think. 30" range is very short for a heavy support squad, too.

Perhaps so. I'm running a pure Primaris chapter, so they definitely are the best unit available to me.

In most games, an autolas pred gets more done for me than 5 hellblasters would have. There is no worry about being in range, and a narrower range of weapons can be used to counter.

Generally good:
Devastators with Cherub, mostly Lascannons, some scattered Heavy Bolters, and potentially Missile Launchers if you need them to switch hit.
Razorbacks with Assault Cannons or Lascannons (primarily Assaults)
Sicaran Battle Tanks, Venators, and Punishers - Which one depends on what else you have and what area you most need to shore up. Battle tanks are the most generally useful. Venators are best against tanks. Punishers are best against hordes.
Contemptor Mortis with Lascannons or Kheres
Leviathan with Storm Cannons
Fire Raptor
Hunter Killer Missile upgrades on stationary vehicles. If you have points to spare, they're worth it for extra alpha striking, especially with rerolls.

Good Chapter Specific:
Ultramarines:
Sergeant Chronus
Roboute Guilliman

Salamanders:
5 2 man Company Veterans with meltas in Drop Pod, 1 storm shield per unit optonal - Note that this is the only time where a Drop Pod is at all worthwhile, and loadout is pretty specific. With this setup, they're more point efficient than plasma Tempestus Command + Tempestor vs. anything with 2+ wounds (even taking the pod and shields into account). Anything less than 5 2 man squads is not worth it.
Dreadnought or Venerable Dreadnought with lascannons and autocannons. Missile launcher if you need to shave points. The free reroll just nudges them up from decent to good for me.

Raptors:
Lias Issodon

Potentially neccessary, but not neccessarily good:
Lieutenants - The best general HQ in terms of cost effectiveness
Captains - Only take if you won't make use of another Lieutenant, or need to support plasma
Techmarines - Cheapest generic HQ, which makes him the 2nd best HQ in most cases, IMHO. The difference between him and a Captain is 1 more decent gun. Conversion beamer is an OK option if you're down to a handful of points to spend, but not something to build around.
Scouts - Really only to fill out a Battalion if you really need Command Points. For just screening, you're better off adding guard

Decent:
Deredeo Dreadnought
Mortis Dreadnought
Dreadnought or Venerable Dreadnought with lascannon and autocannon or missile launcher
Hellblasters - Require support from a Captain or Guilliman, but still get outperformed by other units for their cost. In the low end of this category for me.
Predators
Stormraven - Generally outclassed by the Fire Raptor, but useful if you need something cheaper or have something worth transporting close
Stormtalon - Also generally outclassed by the Fire Raptor, but significantly cheaper if you're too short on points for the Stormraven.
Rapier Carrier with Quad Launcher - You're probably better off with Guard artillery, though
Sternguard with Special-Issue Bolters - Mostly meh, but they make a decent anti-deep strike shooting unit and are relatively cheap. The Stratagem is what bolsters the up to being decent.
Tigurius
Whirlwind Scorpius - The primary thing keeping it from being good is the cost. They're close, but don't quite match up to some other options in terms of efficiency. Not a bad choice, but not a great one IMHO.

Conditional
Jump Pack or Terminator Captain/Lieutenant - If you need to add support to a heavy deep striking force. Only if you have a significant number of very fast or deep striking units.
Kayvan Shrike - Same caveat as above, but he's more point efficient than taking a deep striking captain and/or Lieutenant
Tacticals - Generally a worse version of Scouts, but allow a Troops lascannon if you don't have another unit you can fit something good on.
Company Veterans - If you have a way to transport them close, they're decent
Ironclad Dreadnought - Decent if and only if flown up the board in a Stormraven
Marneus Calgar - If and only if you aren't bringing Guilliman for some reason
Ancient - Decent if taking lots of plasma
Bikes - If playing games where you need mobility to capture different objectives each turn, they can be decent, but not great.

Most characters (including the special ones) are terrible in terms of point efficiency over just taking more guys. The ones worth using either bring something special to the table for a reasonable point or are the cheapest option.
Intercessors are too expensive to be a cheap detachment filler, and they otherwise only fill the same role as Sternguard with SIB, except without the Stratagem.

I like to run either an Ancient or Apothecary - probably not the best characters but they synergize well with certain units.

Where would you put Scout Bikers? I'd put them in the good category but possibly decent. Sort of straddle the fence.

I think they are actually pretty good if you run small dakka squads.

I lump them in conditional with the other bikes. In a Maelstrom or other turn by turn objective games, they can be good to run between objectives and still throw out a good number of shots. Otherwise decent, but not great.