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So I have decided to start my World Eaters army and most of it is fleshed out but I want to run a super heavy as the only other heavy I own is Magnus. Sticking to established lore is important but could be subverted for a good enough reason (why I included the Knight as a option).
Im going to list my pros and cons for each and with that information perhaps a few less indecisive folks can help me make the choice. Also if you feel like it go ahead and list personal experience playing with or against said model, as I have done neither. So with the boring stuff out of the way.....on to more boring stuff!!!!

Lord of Skulls : Pros - Highest Wound Count out of the three. Most firepower available. Best Lore option. Growing Attacks as wounded. STR 10 means STR 20 smash attacks.
Cons - Most expensive option. Least favorite model of the three. Slowest movement speed.

Kytan Ravager : Pros - Most attacks. Favorite model. 12inch Movement. STR 10 means STR 20 smash attacks.
Cons - Way Way overpriced weapon. Weakest firepower of the three choices, Battle Walker rule is highly situational in its benefits. 6 wounds less than the Lord of Skulls and 2 less than the knight.

Imperial Knight : Pros - Second favorite model. Good mix of dakka and melee options Cheapest (depending) option. +4 Invuln (big pro).
Cons - Fluff breaking ( WE's dont own any chaos knights ) *big problem for me*. Weakest Melee weapon. Gauntlet gives -1 to hit. A few weapons are overpriced (imho).

So, I must state that these Pro's and Con's are my own. They do not apply to anyone else or as a critique of list models. Also, a reminder. If you have any experience you would like to share playing with or against mentioned models please feel free to do so, if it is something you want to do.
Many thanks in advance. Im sorry if the formating is weird.

A Kytan in AoS?
Wrong forum methinks lol

 Ratius wrote:
A Kytan in AoS?
Wrong forum methinks lol

Crap. lol thanks for the heads up. Asked a Mod to move it to the proper forum. Very sorry.

Table wrote:
So I have decided to start my World Eaters army and most of it is fleshed out but I want to run a super heavy as the only other heavy I own is Magnus. Sticking to established lore is important but could be subverted for a good enough reason (why I included the Knight as a option).
Im going to list my pros and cons for each and with that information perhaps a few less indecisive folks can help me make the choice. Also if you feel like it go ahead and list personal experience playing with or against said model, as I have done neither. So with the boring stuff out of the way.....on to more boring stuff!!!!

Lord of Skulls : Pros - Highest Wound Count out of the three. Most firepower available. Best Lore option. Growing Attacks as wounded. STR 10 means STR 20 smash attacks.
Cons - Most expensive option. Least favorite model of the three. Slowest movement speed.

Kytan Ravager : Pros - Most attacks. Favorite model. 12inch Movement. STR 10 means STR 20 smash attacks.
Cons - Way Way overpriced weapon. Weakest firepower of the three choices, Battle Walker rule is highly situational in its benefits. 6 wounds less than the Lord of Skulls and 2 less than the knight.

Imperial Knight : Pros - Second favorite model. Good mix of dakka and melee options Cheapest (depending) option. +4 Invuln (big pro).
Cons - Fluff breaking ( WE's dont own any chaos knights ) *big problem for me*. Weakest Melee weapon. Gauntlet gives -1 to hit. A few weapons are overpriced (imho).

So, I must state that these Pro's and Con's are my own. They do not apply to anyone else or as a critique of list models. Also, a reminder. If you have any experience you would like to share playing with or against mentioned models please feel free to do so, if it is something you want to do.
Many thanks in advance. Im sorry if the formating is weird.

Well, since you are in the AOS forums, how about we take down all that mech junk and sell you a most glorious mawkrusha?

I run a shooty Renegade Knight with my Iron Warriors and it always plays pretty well.

I run mine with thermal cannon, battle cannon and stormspear rockets. It pretty much always gets it's points back.

It isn't fluff breaking at all (I don't know why you are using an Imperial Knight over a Renegade one).

Also combat is the last place it wants to be from my experience.

I used to run a LoS with Magnus myself: great combo with warptime + prescience, decent amount of fire power and crushing combat capabilities.

However, recently I've swapped the LoS for a Brass Scorpion for 4 reasons:
1. It is (IMO) the BEST looking model across both the GW and FW ranges, I just love it.
2. It's firepower is much better (bringing some shooting to a predominantly Khorne list is a good idea) without sacrificing that much of it's combat capabilities; has less strength in combat but balances that by having more attacks base.
3. Not being able to cast buffs on it is a pain but it does save warptime + prescience for other models.
4. This is my favourite reason - suicide bomber: blows up on a 4+ and does d6 mortal wounds to all models within 2d6".

I've fielded this monster 5 times now,
1st game - reduced to 5W turn 1 by IG super heavy fire, still managed to take down a super heavy tank with it's bombard.
2nd game - killed 4 Nid monsters as well as 3 units of gribblies and survived the whole game.
3rd game - Magnus warptimed up the board and 1 shotted him, Booo! But he blew up and did 5 wounds to Magnus, Yay!
4th game - blew up a contemptor in cc, was then hammered by devastator and contemptor fire until it blew up; this explosion took a contemptor and 3 units of devastators with it.
5th game - destroyed a dreadnought and razorback in shooting/cc, took heavy fire from devastators and dreadnoughts; survived. Then exploded in combat taking a dreadnought and 3 terminators with him.


The scorpion is so much fun and definitely worth taking a look at.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I used to run a LoS with Magnus myself: great combo with warptime + prescience, decent amount of fire power and crushing combat capabilities.

However, recently I've swapped the LoS for a Brass Scorpion for 4 reasons:
1. It is (IMO) the BEST looking model across both the GW and FW ranges, I just love it.
2. It's firepower is much better (bringing some shooting to a predominantly Khorne list is a good idea) without sacrificing that much of it's combat capabilities; has less strength in combat but balances that by having more attacks base.
3. Not being able to cast buffs on it is a pain but it does save warptime + prescience for other models.
4. This is my favourite reason - suicide bomber: blows up on a 4+ and does d6 mortal wounds to all models within 2d6".

I've fielded this monster 5 times now,
1st game - reduced to 5W turn 1 by IG super heavy fire, still managed to take down a super heavy tank with it's bombard.
2nd game - killed 4 Nid monsters as well as 3 units of gribblies and survived the whole game.
3rd game - Magnus warptimed up the board and 1 shotted him, Booo! But he blew up and did 5 wounds to Magnus, Yay!
4th game - blew up a contemptor in cc, was then hammered by devastator and contemptor fire until it blew up; this explosion took a contemptor and 3 units of devastators with it.
5th game - destroyed a dreadnought and razorback in shooting/cc, took heavy fire from devastators and dreadnoughts; survived. Then exploded in combat taking a dreadnought and 3 terminators with him.


The scorpion is so much fun and definitely worth taking a look at.

Thank you so much for the great reply! I would have the Brass Ball Buster in contention with the other choices but if I am not mistaken, which is rare, he got a hefty point increase in chapter approved. While the nerf was moderate at 650 points It kinda puts it out of my price range. But Id ask a few questions. Do you feel it is worth 650 points now? I know each game changes and this is not the only reason to take the unit (you have the best reason imho, which is liking the model) but it only made its points back in two of the five listed scenarios. Of course making points back is not the only measure of success and most certainly not the only reason to choose a model. But I am interested. At its current price I think it woud be wise to build the rest of the army around it and thus, not a good fit in my list since I need something more drop in, in nature. But im very glad you shared that information with me as I have always wondered about that unit, being that is so great looking.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turalon wrote:
I run a shooty Renegade Knight with my Iron Warriors and it always plays pretty well.

I run mine with thermal cannon, battle cannon and stormspear rockets. It pretty much always gets it's points back.

It isn't fluff breaking at all (I don't know why you are using an Imperial Knight over a Renegade one).

Also combat is the last place it wants to be from my experience.

Hi, as always thank you for the reply. I was going for a more melee leaning knight but Its interesting that yours is so heavily leaning towards shooting,. Would love to see it in action! The reason I mention it as fluff breaking is that (correct me if I am wrong) but no one outside of Knight Houses owns Renegade or Imperial Knights. Even further the World Eaters are no longer a legion. The name is only relevant to describe the identity of the many warbands created from the legions fracturing and those units are heavily shaped by their World Eaters origin. But honestly World Eater warbands could never exist if injecting any form of realism into the setting (probably the worst offenders in this regard). So, the fact they would even have the ability to maintain a renegade knight, let alone get one in the first place are almost impossible. Now as far as the other two options is that they are demon engines and require alot less upkeep and perhaps one or two dark mechanicum are used by the warlord to keep it in check when not in the battlefield. I mean its all fluff breaking due to the world eaters fluff as written.

I listed it as a Imperial Knight purely out of habit. I apologize.

I think the Lord of Skulls beats the others out purely from having the Daemonforge stratagem available to reroll all hits and wounds. The Brass Scorpion would also work for this. There’s also the synergies with the recent Daemon codex. Heralds of Khorne, the Locus, and the Blood Crown relic in addition to the existing Chaos Marine Lords and Sorcerers.

 Badablack wrote:
I think the Lord of Skulls beats the others out purely from having the Daemonforge stratagem available to reroll all hits and wounds. The Brass Scorpion would also work for this. There’s also the synergies with the recent Daemon codex. Heralds of Khorne, the Locus, and the Blood Crown relic in addition to the existing Chaos Marine Lords and Sorcerers.

I think the Kytan is a demon engine as well. But the LoS stands to gain more from it.

Table wrote:

Thank you so much for the great reply! I would have the Brass Ball Buster in contention with the other choices but if I am not mistaken, which is rare, he got a hefty point increase in chapter approved. While the nerf was moderate at 650 points It kinda puts it out of my price range. But Id ask a few questions. Do you feel it is worth 650 points now? I know each game changes and this is not the only reason to take the unit (you have the best reason imho, which is liking the model) but it only made its points back in two of the five listed scenarios. Of course making points back is not the only measure of success and most certainly not the only reason to choose a model. But I am interested. At its current price I think it woud be wise to build the rest of the army around it and thus, not a good fit in my list since I need something more drop in, in nature. But im very glad you shared that information with me as I have always wondered about that unit, being that is so great looking.

It didn't get a Nerf in chapter approved, it is still 625pts: which is actually within the LoS 530-660pt bracket (depending what you arm it with).

Out of the times I've fielded it I've lost 2/5 games (all of which I went second): both of which wouldn't have been changed if I'd taken a LoS instead since they both have the same defensive capabilities. But I do think the Brass Scorpion is worth the points (I haven't been using daemonforge on it yet, I forgot to, So that may make it even better!). And as I said before, psychic powers can't do anything to it so don't bother trying to build a list around it, just watch it draw fire from half the board and laugh when it explodes in your opponents face.

I'm gonna use it again today and see if a Daemonforge/VotLW/Warp Surge combo might be nice: 4++, hits on 3+, re-rolling, wounds on 2+, re-rolling and does either 2d6 damage (per hit) at range or straight 6 in CC.

Nah dude, it’s definitely 650 points now.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Nah dude, it’s definitely 650 points now.

Says who? It's 625 in the index, the index FAQ only changed how it interacted with psychic powers and chapter approved doesn't mention it at all. When did it get a points increase?

Check Chapter Approved Page 120 under “Daemon Bound Units.”

Renegade knights aren't owned by a legion per se but they often join them due to honour bound agreements, payment or the promise of glory.

No reason you can't have a knight with your world eaters, it can even have a totally different colour scheme and be legit fluff wise.

Or enslavement.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Check Chapter Approved Page 120 under “Daemon Bound Units.”

God i'ma dipstick, for some reason I thought it was under Hellforged. Sorry about that.

No worries, that’s what happens when there are 50 places we’re supposed to look for rules/changes.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Turalon wrote:
I run a shooty Renegade Knight with my Iron Warriors and it always plays pretty well.

I run mine with thermal cannon, battle cannon and stormspear rockets. It pretty much always gets it's points back.

It isn't fluff breaking at all (I don't know why you are using an Imperial Knight over a Renegade one).

Also combat is the last place it wants to be from my experience.

Hi, as always thank you for the reply. I was going for a more melee leaning knight but Its interesting that yours is so heavily leaning towards shooting,. Would love to see it in action! The reason I mention it as fluff breaking is that (correct me if I am wrong) but no one outside of Knight Houses owns Renegade or Imperial Knights. Even further the World Eaters are no longer a legion. The name is only relevant to describe the identity of the many warbands created from the legions fracturing and those units are heavily shaped by their World Eaters origin. But honestly World Eater warbands could never exist if injecting any form of realism into the setting (probably the worst offenders in this regard). So, the fact they would even have the ability to maintain a renegade knight, let alone get one in the first place are almost impossible. Now as far as the other two options is that they are demon engines and require alot less upkeep and perhaps one or two dark mechanicum are used by the warlord to keep it in check when not in the battlefield. I mean its all fluff breaking due to the world eaters fluff as written.

I listed it as a Imperial Knight purely out of habit. I apologize.

There is a fluff story I read a while back about some knight houses swearing allegiance to the Iron Warriors at the time of the Heresy (or before it). It is conceivable that this could have happened with other legions. I have read other stories about khorne warbands attracting followers form places they attack, or devotes of Khorne being attracted to powerful warlords. It is conceivable that a knight pilot could fall to blood lust and be attracted to a khorne warband. So, you could use this as justification for one joining your warband.

Shooting definitely feels like the way to go in this edition, that's why I equipped mine so. I built an avenger gattling cannon arm and am looking forward to trying that out with the battle cannon. I haven't had a chance to have a game since chapter approved came out yet theo