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Orders themselves might not be considered aura effect, but Voice of Command (the ability that grants the effect called orders) is a proximity based ability, so I'd agree it's in a grey area, but for consistency purposes counted as targetable "aura ability"
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
What about psychic powers, are those abilities? After all, most of them are "proximity based" much like orders are.
Those are called "Psychic Powers" specifically.

Battle Primer pg5

Aura Abilities
Some units... have abilities that affect certain models within a given range.

Aura abilities are abilities that certain units have that does certain things to certain models/units in a certain range.
Psyker units/models have the ability to use psychic powers, via given permission to access the appropriate psychic power table. Psychic powers themselves are not abilities that which units/model has innately via datasheet - would be my rationale.

In other words, psychic powers are to psykers as what orders are to Voice of Command.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/01/26 18:04:23


 
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?


No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table and X attempts to deny.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 15:29:04


 
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 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So then the question goes back to is "being a psyker" an aura ability?

Does my question make sense? If Voice of Command is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target" and a psyker's ability is "do a specific power within a certain range to a certain target", then surely either both are aura abilities or neither are aura abilities?


No, being a psyker simply grants you the access to psychic power table.


And having voice of command simply grants you access to Orders.

Without the Orders table, the Voice of Command ability is as useful as the Psyker ability without the Psychic Powers table.


For facilitating this discussion, let's define "abilities" and "effect". "Abilities" are those which grant the said "effects." So;
[Ability: Voice of Command] grants [Effect: Orders]
[Ability: Psyker] grants [Effect: Psychic Powers]

What are [Aura Abilities]? "Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect." So, [Aura Abiities] have following characteristics;
1. Are abilities that certain units have.
2. It affects certain models, including self, within a given range.

Voice of Command considers it's range at the [Ability] level, while [Psychic power] considers range at the [Effect] level.
Following your line of logic, then all attacks (shooting & melee) can be considered an aura ability since "its proximity based" effect that removes wounds from a model.
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As previously mentioned, yes, this is in a grey area. The point I'm making is that the RAW has more than one valid interpretations, because other possible 'misinterpretations' has not been explicitly discounted.

Taking 'Aura Abilities' entry in the Battle Primer
"Some units – usually CHARACTERS – have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. Unless the ability in question says otherwise, a model with a rule like this is always within range of the effect."
The latter sentence starting "Unless..." is irrelevant since we already know the model is always within affect of its own aura unless otherwise stated.

Aura abilities, per RAW:
1. Is/are ability(ies) that a unit/model has.
2. Has an effective range.
3. Grants an effect from source model/unit to recipient model/unit.

Taking 'Tactical Toolbox - Aura Abilities' post dated 08/18/17
"...Some of these abilities affect all friendly models or units within a certain range. We call these ‘aura abilities’..."
Source:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/18/tactical-toolbox-aura-abilities-aug-18gw-homepage-post-3/
Depending on where the emphasis is put, the sentence has different meanings:
"SOME of these abilities affect all friendly models or units within a certain range." reads only some abilities affect friendly models or units. Some abilities affect enemy units.
"some of these abilities affect ALL friendly models or units within a certain range." reads either models or units benefit as long as they are within certain range.
"some of these abilities affect all friendly models OR units within a certain range." reads some abilities only affect friendly models, while some abilities affect units.

Obviously, Warhammer Community post can't be regarded as official ruling on the matter. It is quite ambiguous - but we can observe the consistency in that aura abilities are "abilities [that] affect... models or units within a certain range".

Following this line of logic, then we arrive at abilities such as "Explodes." Indeed, it is an [Ability] that has an [Effect] of dealing mortal wounds to units within 3". It fulfills all of the requirements of [Aura Abilities] per RAW. However, we see that [Ability:Explodes] is an ability triggered by a dice roll - this is distinctively different than what we consider "standard aura abilities" which does not require a dice roll and is always in effect. From here, we can then infer that aura abilities are:
4. Always "on" and does not require dice rolls to activate, since the only prerequisite is to be in range of the said model/unit that has such ability.

Which then brings us to the point, for the purpose of consistency, Voice of Command is;
1. An ability available to certain units.
2. Has an effective range of 6".
3. Grants orders from the source unit to a recipient unit.
4. Is always "on" and does not require a dice roll to activate.

To sum up, I AM on the boat for voice of Command not being considered an Aura Ability. But for consistency purposes listed above, I think Voice of Command is a viable target to Counter Tactics ability.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Right, but the effect and the ability aren't divided like that anywhere in the rules. One could say that Guilliman's re-roll aura (literally the basest form of aura) is [Ability: Lord Castellan of the Imperium] grants [Effect: Re-Roll To-Hit and To-Wound Rolls]."

There's no reason to parse abilities into [name] and [what they do].
But this is precisely how the datasheets are structured. Units/models have a certain [Ability], and that certain [Ability] has an [Effect] as described. The description of the [Ability] is the [Effect] the said [Ability] has, is it not?

Furthermore, you cannot consider "shooting" or "fighting" as an ability because it is not an ability granted under "Abilities" section in datasheets.

This brings up other issues as well:

Q. Is voice of command a aura ability if conscripts are required to roll to receive an order?
A. No, "Raw Recruit" is an ability that conscripts have.

Q. If one can argue that aura abilities are those that which affect more than one unit/model, how is Voice of Command an Aura Ability when it can only affect one unit per turn?
A. By extension of that, Voice of Command becomes an aura ability if the orders were issued using a Tempestus Command Rod, which affects two units in one turn.

Q. If one argues that Aura Abilities are those that affect multiple units, then, if a captain has no viable recipient of his 'Rite of Battle' other than himself, is it no longer considered an 'aura ability'?
A. ...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/26 18:48:20


 
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Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.

Honestly, GW just needs to release a glossary of terms.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/26 17:28:56


 
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.
No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.
So you're saying aura abilities are explicitly defined in the rulebook so that it MUST affect all (eligible) units/models in range? Because the "literal opposite" of what I said would be that...
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 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
 BaconCatBug wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
Right, but RAW, aura abilities aren't explicitly defined as abilities that MUST affect all units/models in range, although safely assumable.
No, it's not safely assumable because the rule says the literal opposite. An ability that only affects <CHAPTER> would not fit your definition.
So you're saying aura abilities are explicitly defined in the rulebook so that it MUST affect all (eligible) units/models in range? Because the "literal opposite" of what I said would be that...
My apologies, I misread your post as saying it must affect all models. I still disagree that it's assumable, since the rules are clear on that point.
Well the "safely assumable" line was in agreement with your comment "my gut would say that it's only "passive" ones but I could easily see the argument it's all abilities with a range."
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 Sautek Supreme wrote:
What about the "Abilities" section of the unit datasheet? Aren't those the abilities being referred to by Zahndrek's rule?
Sorry, what's the question?
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Captyn_Bob wrote:
No, they affect one target within a range.
Senior Officer/Command Rod allows orders to be issued to two units. It is now affecting more than one target within a range. Is it now an aura?

A SM Captain has no eligible targets of 'Rites of Battle' other than himself. Is Rites of Battle no longer an aura ability since its only affecting one target within a range?

We all know what aura is. In this particular case, however, it cannot be defined by number of targets it affects.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/27 13:59:00


 
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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
It's a matter of RAI vs RAW.

I'd say that an "Aura" is a passive or active AOE buff or debuff from one unit effecting one or more unitl(s).

Personally I don't think Orders are an Aura ability.

Same as Chapter Tactics and their equivalents aren't Auras.
I agree that orders themselves are not aura, but the ability Voice of Command that grants the orders needs to count as an 'Aura Ability' for consistency purposes.

Chapter tactics are different in that it is inherent to the eligible models and is not granted from one unit/model to another.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/27 15:41:58


 
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If we were to venture into the dangerous realm of intent while Mr. BCB is here, what does Nemesor Zahndrekh's Counter Tactics do exactly?

"...any aura abilities... cannot be used..."

What does this effectively accomplish? It negates a character from using an ability that provides buff/debuff to nearby units/models.

Voice of Command is effectively an ability that provides buff to nearby units. Should VoC really be excluded from being affected by Counter Tactics simply because it provides buff to selected unit(s) only, within its effective radius?

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If we were to truly look at the intent behind Counter Tactics ability, it seems its supposed to function as a 'silence' mechanism that disables the character, making it into a simple unit for remainder of the turn.

For one to discount VoC from the abilities that Counter Tactics affects simply because it's a targeted buff seems unintentional IMO.
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Similarly, I'd rule that an apothecary cannot heal if it was targeted by Counter Tactics.
 
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