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I saw a list from LVO that had a Soup Battalion with Black Templar Scouts. I thought that was a clever list choice to get Abhor The Witch. But after thinking about it, do those scouts actually have access to that stratagem? Maybe the list wasn’t utilizing the stratagem but I was curious.

Median Trace wrote:
I saw a list from LVO that had a Soup Battalion with Black Templar Scouts. I thought that was a clever list choice to get Abhor The Witch. But after thinking about it, do those scouts actually have access to that stratagem? Maybe the list wasn’t utilizing the stratagem but I was curious.

They would not, unless they had a pure Black Templars detachment somewhere else.

This just came up on the LVO twitch stream. IF the detachment is a SPACE MARINE detachment (ie consisted of units SOLELY from the SPACE MARINES/ADEPTUS ASTARTES faction) then, regardless of <CHAPTER>, it would still qualify to use SPACE MARINES/ADEPTUS ASTARTES stratagems. The models would just not qualify for the chapter tactic, per the special rule for chapter tactics. If it was an IMPERIUM detachment, then it would not. From the codices:

SPACE MARINES STRATAGEMS: If your army is BATTLE-FORGED and includes any Space Marines Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown here, and can spend Command Points to activate them. These reflect the unique strategies used by the Adeptus Astartes on the battlefield.

BATTLE-FORGED: If a mission you are playing instructs you to select a BATTLE-FORGED army, it means that you must organise all the units in your army into Detachments To include a particular Detachment in your army, simply organise some or all of your units so that they fit within the restrictions and limitations detailed for that particular Detachment. A unit cannot belong to more than one Detachment, and you will often need to use additional information found on a unit’s datasheet, such as Faction and Battlefield Role (see below and right) to determine where it fits in a Detachment.

FACTION: A unit’s Faction is important when building a Battle-forged army because some Detachments require all units included in it to be from the same Faction. The Factions that a unit belongs to will be listed in the keywords section of its datasheet. For example, a Space Marine Captain has the IMPERIUM and ADEPTUS ASTARTES keywords, so belongs to both the Imperium and Adeptus Astartes Factions. This means that if a Space Marine Captain was part of a Detachment with the restriction that all units must be from the same Faction, all other units in that Detachment must either be from the Imperium Faction, or they must all be from the Adeptus Astartes Faction.

There's nothing that says the detachment can't consist of 1x Black Templar scouts, 1x Ravenguard scouts, 1x Salamander scouts and still benefit from the stratagems (abhor the witch, strike from the shadows, etc etc). What you won't get is the chapter tactics.

Waelfwulf wrote:
This just came up on the LVO twitch stream. IF the detachment is a SPACE MARINE detachment (ie consisted of units SOLELY from the SPACE MARINES/ADEPTUS ASTARTES faction) then, regardless of <CHAPTER>, it would still qualify to use SPACE MARINES/ADEPTUS ASTARTES stratagems. The models would just not qualify for the chapter tactic, per the special rule for chapter tactics. If it was an IMPERIUM detachment, then it would not. From the codices:

SPACE MARINES STRATAGEMS: If your army is BATTLE-FORGED and includes any Space Marines Detachments (excluding Auxiliary Support Detachments), you have access to the Stratagems shown here, and can spend Command Points to activate them. These reflect the unique strategies used by the Adeptus Astartes on the battlefield.

BATTLE-FORGED: If a mission you are playing instructs you to select a BATTLE-FORGED army, it means that you must organise all the units in your army into Detachments To include a particular Detachment in your army, simply organise some or all of your units so that they fit within the restrictions and limitations detailed for that particular Detachment. A unit cannot belong to more than one Detachment, and you will often need to use additional information found on a unit’s datasheet, such as Faction and Battlefield Role (see below and right) to determine where it fits in a Detachment.

FACTION: A unit’s Faction is important when building a Battle-forged army because some Detachments require all units included in it to be from the same Faction. The Factions that a unit belongs to will be listed in the keywords section of its datasheet. For example, a Space Marine Captain has the IMPERIUM and ADEPTUS ASTARTES keywords, so belongs to both the Imperium and Adeptus Astartes Factions. This means that if a Space Marine Captain was part of a Detachment with the restriction that all units must be from the same Faction, all other units in that Detachment must either be from the Imperium Faction, or they must all be from the Adeptus Astartes Faction.

There's nothing that says the detachment can't consist of 1x Black Templar scouts, 1x Ravenguard scouts, 1x Salamander scouts and still benefit from the stratagems (abhor the witch, strike from the shadows, etc etc). What you won't get is the chapter tactics.

Then somebody missed the following:

Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines wrote:
SPACE MARINES UNITS
In the rules described in this section we often
refer to ‘Space Marines units’. This is shorthand
for any ADEPTUS ASTARTES unit that
has one of the following Faction keywords:
<CHAPTER>, ULTRAMARINES, IMPERIAL
FISTS, SALAMANDERS, WHITE SCARS,
RAVEN GUARD, IRON HANDS, CRIMSON
FISTS or BLACK TEMPLARS. A Space Marines
Detachment is therefore one which only
includes units with one of these keywords.

Emphasis mine. The codex straight up tells you that a Space Mairne detachemnt must be from the same chapter. Page 194.

The detachment contains only units with one of the keywords. Doesn't say all units in the detachment have to have the same keyword.

I guess that comes down to how you read "one of these keywords". Does it mean all units have one of any keyword per unit, does it mean all units have one (the same one) keyword, or does it mean they all have one of the above words as a keyword(in which case imperial (one word) from imperial Fists would grant a detachment space Marine status if it has keyword imperial)

Celestine was HQ for that detachment so it wasn't a spacemarine detachment.