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Faction / # Players / Top Finisher

Eldar/20/1
Blood Angels/6/2
Space Wolves/2/8
Adepta Sororitas/3/11
Adeptus Astartes/7/12
Astra Militarum/10/13
Chaos/24/6
Tau/4/18
Genestealer Cult/3/33
Grey Knights/4/38
Dark Angels/2/45
Cult Mechanicus/2/53
Tyranids/4/54
Orks/5/55
Imperium/2/78
Necrons/1/81
Deathwatch/1/89

It's pretty clear that Eldar are redefining the meta.

Couple notes:

1. I combined all Eldar flavors into Eldar (Ulthwe, Alaitoc, Asurayani, Ynaari)
2. I combined all "Chaos" flavors into Chaos (Death Guard, Daemons, Chaos Space Marines, Alpha Legion, et al)
3. I combined all flavors of codex astartes into "Adeptus Astartes" (Salamanders, Ultramarines, et al)


All lists available in BCP.

The top 5 were undefeated, they were:

1. Eldar
2. Blood Angels
3. Eldar
4. Blood Angels
5. Death Guard

Update: in the final 8, the final table was Eldar vs Eldar. Spoiler: Eldar won!

Apparently there was a big controversy in the semis but i am not sure yet what it was.

Update 2/1: Full list and order here, post final table.

https://www.bestcoastpairings.com/r/q09y1gw9

My Blood Angels tearing up the masses. People were starting to say they sucked due to all the battle reps of them constantly losing but I kept saying they were losing due to people playing them incorrectly and focusing solely on CC. I'm curious what lists they were running.

Hoodwink wrote:
My Blood Angels tearing up the masses. People were starting to say they sucked due to all the battle reps of them constantly losing but I kept saying they were losing due to people playing them incorrectly and focusing solely on CC. I'm curious what lists they were running.

They pair excellently with guard. They, unlike the rest of SM, actually add something - the 3d6 deep strike charge.

Why is it clear that Eldar is redefining the meta? Because there were 20 Eldar players, or because an Eldar player finished on top?

pismakron wrote:
Why is it clear that Eldar is redefining the meta? Because there were 20 Eldar players, or because an Eldar player finished on top?

I think it's partially due to looking at the undefeated lists and Eldar show up first and third while armies that were considered the best (cough, Guard) aren't even showing up at all. Also, I'm kinda surprised Nids aren't up there.

Four eldar players finished in the top 8

Dark Reaper spam is too good. I'll love to see the top10 list, if you can provide them marmatag! I'm too lazy to look for them myself

Hoodwink wrote:

pismakron wrote:
Why is it clear that Eldar is redefining the meta? Because there were 20 Eldar players, or because an Eldar player finished on top?

I think it's partially due to looking at the undefeated lists and Eldar show up first and third while armies that were considered the best (cough, Guard) aren't even showing up at all. Also, I'm kinda surprised Nids aren't up there.

Okay, I just didn't get the ranking. Number of players with a faction does not in itself say a lot about that factions relative strength, and top finisher could be an outlier. But I get your point.

Wow so the list that has ended second in LOV was 100% BA, it has not Imperial Guard in it. I'm sure many people would have called that list weak in this forum list-section :

Mark Wright's 2k 10 CP mono-BA

2x Batallion + Vanguard

1st Bat

Captain + jump pack + storm shield + thunder hammer + Angel's wings + Artisan of War (Warlord)
Librarian + jump pack + storm bolter + force staff

3x 5man Intercessor, bolt rifles, grenade launcher, chainsword on Sgt

2nd Bat

Sanguinary priest + jump pack + chainsword + storm bolter
Sanguinor

5man Intercessor, bolt rifles, grenade launcher, chainsword on Sgt
5man scouts, bolters, chainsword on Sgt
7man Tactical squad, bolters, heavy bolter, chainsword on Sgt

Vanguard

Lemartes

15man Death company + jump packs + 15x boltgun + 1x power fist + 14x chainsword
10man Sanguinary guard + Angelus boltguns & encarmine swords
Sanguinary ancient + angelus boltgun & encarmine sword + Relic Banner
Company Ancient + power sword

1999 points.

It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Yeah I just read his list against a Chaos player last round, and his Capt with TH just one round charge killed a Fire Raptor

Yes, capt smashyface is really good vs one large model. Mr. Chaos needed some cultists in front. Don't leave him without screens. That's how you beat BA. Screens.

It's worth noting that even thought there were Blood Angels and even a Space Wolf guy in the top 8, if you look at the lists it's all
"Space Wolf HQs and 10 units of Infantry Squads". I think the top BA guy brought 6 infantry squads?

Before the Guard players come in to declare there's nothing wrong with their codex, I think the numbers show pretty clearly that Infantry Squads are in the same category as Dark Reapers.

One BA guy is using the IG crutch, the other isn't.

Martel732 wrote:
It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Are you seriously saying that someone can place in the top competitors in LVO with a weak list due to "favorable matchups"? When you get to this point in competitiveness where people are pretty equal in skill, your list makes or breaks your ability to win games. Having a weak list that just happens to have a bunch of favorable matchups really doesn't qualify it as a weak list. The Chaos player had a list with several pyskers, a bunch of chaff including cultists and horrors, several Berserkers in Rhinos, and fire support in the back lines. I don't really see how that's a favorable matchup to Blood Angels. The guy had screens. He had 60 models of screen units.

Of course is a possibility that, that list isn't the most powerfull thing out there. Is very possible that it can't win agaisn't other top10 list like Dark Reaper spam. That doesn't mean is a weak list, or isn't a competitive one.

I'm interested, how was the Death Guard list that placed 5th?

Hoodwink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Are you seriously saying that someone can place in the top competitors in LVO with a weak list due to "favorable matchups"? When you get to this point in competitiveness where people are pretty equal in skill, your list makes or breaks your ability to win games. Having a weak list that just happens to have a bunch of favorable matchups really doesn't qualify it as a weak list. The Chaos player had a list with several pyskers, a bunch of chaff including cultists and horrors, several Berserkers in Rhinos, and fire support in the back lines. I don't really see how that's a favorable matchup to Blood Angels. The guy had screens. He had 60 models of screen units.

It's infinitely better for them than 150 guardsmen. I've broken through 60 models before with BA, and it was even against CSM. In the end equation, CSM are still paying more on average than IG, so at some point, the BA are actually taking real points off the table, which never happens vs IG. I suspect that I have seriously underestimated the effect of Altioc on scaring off IG players.

There were 10 Imperial Guard players, that wasn't a small number. Plus all the imperial forces with Imperial Guard detachments.


EDIT: Lol, the death guard list is disgusting in all kind of ways But ey, it was at least an innovation!

It's curious that "Eldar are tearing up the meta" when 2 of their 20 players were in the top 5, but there's much less criticism/doomsaying about Blood Angels achieving the same result, but with only 6 players.

I think what we're really learning is that it's a meta that's still being defined. Reapers were thought to be strong, sure, but there's a lot less reaper spam than people are implying. What it seems to me as the crux of powerful in this edition is the ability to use (read: abuse) force multipliers.

I don't understand how Tyranids didn't do much better.

Viewing that Blood Angel list, it looks very weak. Which is strange considering how it positioned, but it seems to have a small amount of multi-damage weapons. My guess, is that this list was made in anticipation of more horde/infantry heavy lists showing up (Such as many guard lists, or Eldar Dark Reaper spam being engaged by deep-strikers). It's a show of how to tailor a list to what you can expect, but can have some pretty poor matchups aswell.

Martel732 wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Are you seriously saying that someone can place in the top competitors in LVO with a weak list due to "favorable matchups"? When you get to this point in competitiveness where people are pretty equal in skill, your list makes or breaks your ability to win games. Having a weak list that just happens to have a bunch of favorable matchups really doesn't qualify it as a weak list. The Chaos player had a list with several pyskers, a bunch of chaff including cultists and horrors, several Berserkers in Rhinos, and fire support in the back lines. I don't really see how that's a favorable matchup to Blood Angels. The guy had screens. He had 60 models of screen units.

It's infinitely better for them than 150 guardsmen. I've broken through 60 models before with BA, and it was even against CSM. In the end equation, CSM are still paying more on average than IG, so at some point, the BA are actually taking real points off the table, which never happens vs IG. I suspect that I have seriously underestimated the effect of Altioc on scaring off IG players.

But the 150 Guardsman list isn't even the top competitive list. Just because you CAN create a list that is difficult for the BA list doesn't mean the BA list isn't competitive. The huge Guardsman list isn't even showing in the top lists. Once IG lost the Commissar buff, then that was the end of huge blobs autowinning since you can merely kill about half and the other half run. The BA list is also incredibly mobile with jump packs that can go over units once you make a hole. Mobility is seriously underestimated by people when you are playing a game with a finite, set number of rounds

Martel732 wrote:
I don't understand how Tyranids didn't do much better.

After 7th edition, with only 4 players, I believe they will take a time to start creeping into high places. They have a very good codex. It lacks the ultra OP units like Dark Reapers (Thats a good thing) but it can be make very strong lists.

Hoodwink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

Hoodwink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Are you seriously saying that someone can place in the top competitors in LVO with a weak list due to "favorable matchups"? When you get to this point in competitiveness where people are pretty equal in skill, your list makes or breaks your ability to win games. Having a weak list that just happens to have a bunch of favorable matchups really doesn't qualify it as a weak list. The Chaos player had a list with several pyskers, a bunch of chaff including cultists and horrors, several Berserkers in Rhinos, and fire support in the back lines. I don't really see how that's a favorable matchup to Blood Angels. The guy had screens. He had 60 models of screen units.

It's infinitely better for them than 150 guardsmen. I've broken through 60 models before with BA, and it was even against CSM. In the end equation, CSM are still paying more on average than IG, so at some point, the BA are actually taking real points off the table, which never happens vs IG. I suspect that I have seriously underestimated the effect of Altioc on scaring off IG players.

But the 150 Guardsman list isn't even the top competitive list. Just because you CAN create a list that is difficult for the BA list doesn't mean the BA list isn't competitive. The huge Guardsman list isn't even showing in the top lists. Once IG lost the Commissar buff, then that was the end of huge blobs autowinning since you can merely kill about half and the other half run. The BA list is also incredibly mobile with jump packs that can go over units once you make a hole. Mobility is seriously underestimated by people when you are playing a game with a finite, set number of rounds

I can't agree with this hard enough. I have tried playing Dark Angels with Greenwing and Deathwing, and most of the games I find myself with a serious lack of movility to take objetives or to be where I want, and I end with 50% of my army doing nothing most of the game. Thats why the strongest DA list are mostly Ravenwing with Greenwing. (And because Ravenwing has the best units, to be honest, but that don't change the point that movility is king in this game)

 Galas wrote:

After 7th edition, with only 4 players, I believe they will take a time to start creeping into high places. They have a very good codex. It lacks the ultra OP units like Dark Reapers (Thats a good thing) but it can be make very strong lists.

I think that's just 4 tyranid players in the top 100.
I'm curious to know how many players took them overall, but annoyingly it seems the overall results page is no longer showing players factions. I don't have the patience to click through 450 links to tally them up.

You are totally right, I forgot this was just the TOP100. Someone has the numbers for total of players for factions? Is not the same for 30 orks to play and only 5 to enter the top 100 than for 6 ork players to play and 5 enter the top 100.

Bless those lone Deathwatch and Necron players.

I'm surprised for that Tau player at rank 18. I assume a Ghostkeel, Y'vrana, Commander and Drone heavy list ?.

You can watch one of the BA player's battles on Warhammer TV. He was facing a Genestealer Cult/AM/Tyranid force with 5 flyrants. Tons of CC the first turn, and the game saw maybe 3 turns when time ran out. If both players had been faster, the BA player would have been wiped by turn 5, probably with 4 flyrants remaining.

The necron player was also on WHTV - clobbered a boyz heavy ork force with wraiths, immortals and a pylon!

Hoodwink wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's a very weak list. But he drew very favorable matchups. It happens. I'll change my position if it can unseat another top 8 list.

Are you seriously saying that someone can place in the top competitors in LVO with a weak list due to "favorable matchups"? When you get to this point in competitiveness where people are pretty equal in skill, your list makes or breaks your ability to win games. Having a weak list that just happens to have a bunch of favorable matchups really doesn't qualify it as a weak list. The Chaos player had a list with several pyskers, a bunch of chaff including cultists and horrors, several Berserkers in Rhinos, and fire support in the back lines. I don't really see how that's a favorable matchup to Blood Angels. The guy had screens. He had 60 models of screen units.

Well seeing as someone here before said the Vanilla codex was fine and maybe it just always had bad matchups for the tournament players, why can't the opposite be said?

 Galas wrote:
There were 10 Imperial Guard players, that wasn't a small number. Plus all the imperial forces with Imperial Guard detachments.


EDIT: Lol, the death guard list is disgusting in all kind of ways But ey, it was at least an innovation!

Spoiler:

If you have been following tides of destruction battle reports on the BR section you have seen such a list there before. Surprised it's not more popular. Maybe buying all those crawlers is chore and risky bet for future if they get nerfed.