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Can an Eldar player use Forewarned after all units have arrived from deep strike and then pick which one he wants to shoot, or does this decision have to be made after the unit arrives, but before the next unit arrives? Is there a "window" where this decision can be made?

For instance, if I have 3 units in deep strike reserve, and I bring on one, and he doesn't use it, and then i bring on another, can he decide to shoot the first one?

From Codex Craftworlds (emphasis added):

Use this Stratagem immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements

So no, you can't wait and pick which unit to play the stratagem on.

 Marmatag wrote:
Can an Eldar player use Forewarned after all units have arrived from deep strike and then pick which one he wants to shoot, or does this decision have to be made after the unit arrives, but before the next unit arrives? Is there a "window" where this decision can be made?

For instance, if I have 3 units in deep strike reserve, and I bring on one, and he doesn't use it, and then i bring on another, can he decide to shoot the first one?

You have to decide as soon as the unit arrives. He won't be able to shoot the first one.

All "deep strikes" happen simultaneously, but the Sequencing rules cause them to be resolved one at a time. Thus the first unit has been fully and completely set up before the second unit arrives, at which point it's too late to use Forewarned on the first unit, since you must use Forewarned "immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements".

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Thus the first unit has been fully and completely set up before the second unit arrives, at which point it's too late to use Forewarned on the first unit, since you must use Forewarned "immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements".

Wouldn't the RAW of the stratagem allow you to target the first unit as long as it was "before the second unit arrives"? The wording on your post seems to say that once the second model of the first unit has been set up, but before the secong unit arrives is too late to declare the stratagem.

Thank you.

 skchsan wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Thus the first unit has been fully and completely set up before the second unit arrives, at which point it's too late to use Forewarned on the first unit, since you must use Forewarned "immediately after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements".

Wouldn't the RAW of the stratagem allow you to target the first unit as long as it was "before the second unit arrives"? The wording on your post seems to say that once the second model of the first unit has been set up, but before the secong unit arrives is too late to declare the stratagem.

'Immediately' is pretty explicit. If anything occurs after your opponent sets up a unit that is arriving on the battlefield as reinforcements then you have not used the 'Forewarned' stratagem when the rule requires its use.

No I get that but when does the "immediately after" kick in? After the first model from a unit of 5 is set up or when the 5th and last model from that unit is placed? The way I see "immediately after" is the time in between when the first 'unit' (and not model) is fully set up and before deciding where the next unit arriving has been decided?

So then, if you set up two single model units ALMOST simultaneously but decidedly one after another, can you no longer declare forewarned on the first unit? If so, that would be the first instance where human reflex enters the play...

Alternatively, lets say I have two units entering as reinforcements. Both are 10 model units. I first set up the first 9 models from unit A. I know as soon as I put down my 10th model, my opponent is going to declare forewarned on my unit A. So I first scope out where I am going to set up unit B. I decide on where to set up unit B, then I take 10th model from unit A on one hand, and 1st model from unit B on the other... Then I place the 10th model from unit A, then almost immediately after, before my opponent can declare his/her stratagem, I quickly place the 1st model from unit B on the battlefield. Is unit A no longer a valid target of forewarned?

If not, are you saying forewarned needs to be declared when someone declares entry as reinforcement?

Nitpicking at its finest.

 skchsan wrote:
No I get that but when does the "immediately after" kick in? After the first model from a unit of 5 is set up or when the 5th and last model from that unit is placed? The way I see "immediately after" is the time in between when the first 'unit' (and not model) is fully set up and before deciding where the next unit arriving has been decided?

The last model of the first unit, of course. The unit has not been Set Up until then.

You're deliberately trying to misinterpret the rules for the sake of misinterpreting them, didn't you just lambaste another poster for doing exactly that?

No, I'm genuinely intrigued by the potential implication of the hardline proposed by some here. I apologize if this sounds like "lambasting" or "nitpickying".

You've said it is too late to use the stratagem when "the first unit has been fully and completely set up before the second unit arrives." I wasn't sure you meant that or it came out wrong, since it looked like we're on the same page as to what "immediately after" indicates.

Clearly there has to be some leeway when the stratagem can be declared - particularly for cases I've outlined.

 skchsan wrote:
No, I'm genuinely intrigued by the potential implication of the hardline proposed by some here. I apologize if this sounds like "lambasting" or "nitpickying".

You've said it is too late to use the stratagem when "the first unit has been fully and completely set up before the second unit arrives." I wasn't sure you meant that or it came out wrong, since it looked like we're on the same page as to what "immediately after" indicates.

I didn't say that. I said that you have to use the stratagem once the first unit is fully set up. You can't wait for the 2nd one to set up, then fire at the first.

 skchsan wrote:
No I get that but when does the "immediately after" kick in?

Immediately after, like it says.

 skchsan wrote:
After the first model from a unit of 5 is set up or when the 5th and last model from that unit is placed?

"immediately after your opponent sets up a unit"

Until you put the last model of the unit down, you are still setting up the unit, but the unit isn't set up yet (it's in the process of being set up).

 skchsan wrote:
Alternatively, lets say I have two units entering as reinforcements. Both are 10 model units. I first set up the first 9 models from unit A. I know as soon as I put down my 10th model, my opponent is going to declare forewarned on my unit A. So I first scope out where I am going to set up unit B. I decide on where to set up unit B, then I take 10th model from unit A on one hand, and 1st model from unit B on the other... Then I place the 10th model from unit A, then almost immediately after, before my opponent c

an declare his/her stratagem, I quickly place the 1st model from unit B on the battlefield. Is unit A no longer a valid target of forewarned?

Ok I just wanted to see what others would do in a situation like that because my local meta has a few deep strike heavy lists.

While definitley TFG move, but RAW, it WOULD prevent you from using forewarning on the first unit in that case, right?

 skchsan wrote:
Ok I just wanted to see what others would do in a situation like that because my local meta has a few deep strike heavy lists.

While definitley TFG move, but RAW, it WOULD prevent you from using forewarning on the first unit in that case, right?

No, it's not RaW, it's just trying to be a dick. Every player gets a chance to announce what they are doing at all times.

If you're really playing against TFG, just pre-announce it to "trigger" when he finishes the first unit, though the real solution is Old Metal Bjorn in a Sock.

 skchsan wrote:
Ok I just wanted to see what others would do in a situation like that because my local meta has a few deep strike heavy lists.

While definitley TFG move, but RAW, it WOULD prevent you from using forewarning on the first unit in that case, right?

No, because your opponent can say "hey, wait a minute" when you try to put down the first model from the second unit then declare he's using forewarning. And, even if you try to do it once, even if you get it that one time they'll be able to stop you from doing it a second time (plus all the ill will you generate toward yourself when word passes around that you were using these types of shenanigans). The deep strike heavy lists shouldn't be able to get away with it.

"As soon as you've finished deploying that unit I'm using Forewarned to shoot at it..."

Say it any time after they've declared they're placing the unit. Problem solved. No TFG rage required as you've pre-empted and prevented any douchery.

And you cannot select a unit to do an action until the prior action is complete. So the 1st model in unit B has TO WAIT until all models in A has been placed before you can even select unit B.
This is order of operations, pure and simple.

-

Is it actually the case that all deep strikes happen at the same time? In case it is, timing sequencing becomes very critical. Something like this could happen:

- Unit 1 deep strikes and is completely set up on the
- Eldar player uses forewarned
- This is a timing conflict with Unit 2 that also wants to deep strike.

The active (deep striking) player may chose to resolve this conflict in any order. The order he choses is deploy unit 2 first. This will not stop forewarned as it is happening simultaneously, but still a second unit would be placed before the first is fired upon

No, that isn't the case. It's not actually possible to place two units simultaneously. One must necessarily be placed before the other.

That's a very good point. The player has to declare Forewarned as soon as the first unit drops if they want to shoot at it, but due to the sequencing rules the active player can deploy the second unit before the Forewarned unit gets to fire.

This thread got weird.

Does my opponent miss their turn if I start my turn quick enough?

 BaconCatBug wrote:
That's a very good point. The player has to declare Forewarned as soon as the first unit drops if they want to shoot at it, but due to the sequencing rules the active player can deploy the second unit before the Forewarned unit gets to fire.

That only works if you break rules, as the next unit to deep strike has no “immediately” clause. The two are distinct in timing.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
That's a very good point. The player has to declare Forewarned as soon as the first unit drops if they want to shoot at it, but due to the sequencing rules the active player can deploy the second unit before the Forewarned unit gets to fire.

That only works if you break rules, as the next unit to deep strike has no “immediately” clause. The two are distinct in timing.

Both happen "at the end of the movement phase". They happen simultaneously and the sequencing rules tell you how to resolve them one at a time. When you put the first unit down, if someone uses Forewarned, you now have another 2 actions happening at the same time (the "end" of the movement phase).

Think about it, if Forewarned happened at an actual time before the 2nd unit is placed, but after the 1st, the 2nd unit would not be coming down at the "end" of the phase.

"The end of the movement phase" must necessarily operate as a mini phase or it gets ridiculous. I wish they'd gone with sub-phases to avoid 'interpretations' like the above.

In non-internet forum actual reality, you can't deploy two units simultaneously and 99% of players will be absolutely fine with a reactive Stratagem being played after the first unit drops.