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Finally almost have 2000 points of Raven Guard painted, and I'm wondering what people think of this list? I'll certainly be expanding my options over time with things like scouts, other vehicles, more weapon options, etc., but I'm particularly keen on getting some ideas on how to effectively run what I have now. My thinking is that I use SftS on the Cataphractii, Vanguard Vets, Sternguard Vets, and potentially either the heavy bolter devastators or the flamer tac squad. Meanwhile, the other devastators, apothecary, and venerable dread form a gunline, while the plasma tacs and contemptors deploy farther forward. Captain and lieutenant deploy between the gunline and the front line to hopefully fit everyone inside their aura bubbles. Chaplain drops in to support VVs and/or Cataphractii, while the Librarian drops in to cast Veil of Time of one of the assault units and, if the positioning is possible, Might of Heroes on a dreadnought. SftS units open fire to clear away chaff followed by an assault to put pressure on squishy backfield targets, gunline fires away, and contemptors charge forward through the holes in the screen to punch some heavy targets to death. I've got a few units that could potentially use the hellfire shells strategem if a good target presents itself, and otherwise my remaining 4-5 CP will probably be used for rerolls. I'm undecided on which model should be the warlord, but I'm thinking the captain and having him take the Storm of Fire warlord trait.

What do you think? Any advice?


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [38 PL, 658pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 81pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword, The Primarch's Wrath

Librarian [7 PL, 120pts]: 1) Veil of Time, 2) Might of Heroes, Boltgun, Force stave, Jump Pack

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Vanguard Veteran Squad [8 PL, 131pts]: Jump Pack
. Space Marine Veteran: Chainsword, Storm shield
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Chainsword
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Space Marine Veteran: 2x Lightning Claw
. Veteran Sergeant: 2x Lightning Claw

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 85pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Flamer

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

Tactical Squad [5 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-plasma
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Plasma gun

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [54 PL, 896pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [4 PL, 60pts]
. Lieutenant: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Cataphractii Terminator Squad [12 PL, 208pts]
. Cataphractii Sergeant: Combi-bolter, Grenade harness, Lightning Claw
. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw
. Cataphractii Terminator: Combi-bolter, Lightning Claw

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Contemptor Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Combi-bolter, Dreadnought combat weapon, Kheres pattern assault cannon

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 116pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Special issue boltgun

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 182pts]: Twin lascannon
. Dreadnought combat weapon w/Storm Bolter: Storm bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [30 PL, 444pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

+ Heavy Support +

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 118pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 2x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 118pts]: Armorium Cherub
. 2x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Plasma cannon
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Lascannon

Devastator Squad [8 PL, 116pts]
. Space Marine Sergeant: Chainsword, Combi-flamer
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter

+ HQ +

Chaplain [6 PL, 92pts]: Jump Pack, Storm bolter

++ Total: [122 PL, 1998pts] ++

Damn, I just deleted my post, well brief summary then

You're lacking anti tank
SftS is best for close shooters, fast assaulters. But needs deployment anchors as it happens after deployment so you can get a good position. Needs scouts. Still difficult to do with assault terminators
A good RG warlord is a jump captain with TH/SS, ravens fury and silent stalker. Makes charges easily and can stop overwatch combos.

Suggested changes
Jump Capt warlord
Swap tacticals for scouts
Swap terminators for vanguard vets. Hammers on both sarges, too limiting otherwise.
Drop plasmacannons, take 3 lascannons in each of those dev squads instead.
I'd be inclined to drop the chaplain, roll the spearhead detachment into the battalion, and swap the apothecary for an ancient to hang with the devs.
I'm not that into contemptors. If probably take them as venerables instead with twin Lascannon twin autocannon setup (from index). 173pts that is durable and puts out some strong accurate dakka.

@ rahxephon, he specifically stated that these are the units he has and would like input on how to play them, not to go out and buy different models.

Here is what I would do, you may have to cut a few thing out to get some points.

1. call them raptors and claim your captain as Lias Issodon. He costs 195 points, he is the chapter master, so all failed hits are rerolled. He also lets you take 3 infantry units in ambush with him, same rules as deep striking, at the end of any of your movement phases 9" inches away from enemy models.

2. Reorganize your Devastator squads so one has 2x lascannons and one has 2 plasma cannons.

3. See if you can grab a single jump pack and stick it on the lieutenant.

4. Take the veterans, the heavy bolter Devastators, and the plasma Devastators in ambush with Lias. Now you have a fire base that you can pop up anywhere on the table.

Now to the deployment. The units that you would place on the table are:
Apothecary
Librarian (steel the jump pack for the lieutenant from him if you have to lol)
3x tactical squads
2x Contemptor
Venerable Dreadnought
Lascannon Devastator squad

That's 9 drops, that leaves 8 in deep strike

Lias Issodon with
Sternguard Veteran
2x Devastators
Lieutenant (drop him with lias)
Vanguard Veterans
Cataphractii
Chaplain

That way you field at least half of your force during deployment.

Put the lascannon squad somewhere in cover
Wala up the field with Dreadnoughts
Claim objectives with the tactical
Wreck havoc with the ambush on one flank
Cause carnage with the vanguard and cataphractii and chaplain on the other.

Ideally you want to set up the ambush and your close combat guys at the same time, just not close together. Now the opponent has to decide which threat to deal with. You have a lot of rerolls in this list. You can use the stratagem that gives a dreadnought the rights of battle rule for a turn for one CP, granting even more rerolls.

Thanks for the advice, lots to think about. I know that I'm a bit light on anti-tank, and I'm debating how best to counteract that moving forward; I have a twin las Razorback, but seeing as that would wind up being the only unit in the army without a -1 to hit, it seems to me that it will go down basically immediately. I also have a Stormtalon and a Stormraven (the latter is not yet assembled, and neither are painted) that I could add in; would you recommend either of them? Or should I just build more devastators?

Regarding the changes you suggested rahxephon:

-Scouts will be coming. I have 2 units of 5 that I plan to add/swap once I have the minis painted.
-I've thought about making a melee-focused warlord, but this seems to me to be just giving away victory points to my opponent. Further, considering how the RG trait encourages long-range shooting, I thought that a storm of fire captain would do better. But this is some food for thought, anyway.
-I'll be adding more VVs (and ones kitted out for heavier targets) later as I build the models. I'm not looking to compete in tournaments with this list, so if at all possible I'd like to find a way to make the termies work.
-Adding more heavy weapons to the devastator squads does not seem like a good idea to me; that many lascannons in one place makes target priority a no-brainer for my opponent. Also, keeping one plasma cannon per squad makes a lot of sense to me, given that the bonuses of the signum basically allow free overcharging. If you have math or something to the contrary though, I'd be curious to read it.
-I'll be building an ancient soon. What makes you say that it would be more useful than the apothecary? I had thought about using them in conjunction with one another.
-The Venerable I already have will be trading its CCW for a missile launcher or twin autocannon once I have the bits, but the Contemptors are staying Contemptors. I don't have any interest in proxying (hence why I mentioned that what I listed is what I've almost finished painting), and I already have another Venerable in the list that looks completely different. Also, considering I want to get them close to the enemy to punch him to death, the additional speed makes a lot of sense to me.

Dwro, you've given me a lot of interesting ideas. I'm not sure that I want to change my captain to Issodon (the army is painted as Raven Guard and I like the fluff of the Raven Guard, so I think I want to play them as such), but the idea of attacking both of the enemy's flanks as well as the center is an interesting one; I'm trying to think about how to accomplish this (to a lesser extent, of course) without Issodon.

Regarding the devastator squads, I'd wanted to keep a plasma cannon in each to use the signum, as I mentioned above. I could also make some swaps with missile launchers if that would be better; what would you suggest?

A jump lieutenant is high on my to-do list (with a pretty sweet double-edged chainsword, to boot), so adding that in the near future is definitely doable.

The devastator swap I suggested works better if you do use issodon. The 2 flank attack is still viable with SFTS, but it costs CP. I fully understand why you take fluff into consideration. It makes playing more fun.

About the Contemptor Dreadnoughts, I love mine. The saves are awesome and so are the bs and ws 2+. If you want to spice things up then you can name one a relic Contemptor Dreadnought. Costs a few more points but yields 2 more wounds and a 6+ ignore damage. Plus you can give him 2x close combat, or 2x ranged weapons, or any combination and the list of ranged weapons legal is a lot bigger. Plus you can add a cyclone missile launcher on top of that.

The main thing with playing RG is that you want long range weapons to make use of the -1 to hit. Couple that with keeping your infantry in cover for a +1 to the armor save.

Now to your close combat guys... The combo of chaplain and lightning claws is fantastic, especially against IG. You are just rerolling everything with that combo.

Thanks again for the advice! I was thinking of maybe using SftS with the Sternguard and Devastators, and rolling the dice to deep-strike in the Vanguard and Termies (along with the Librarian to cast Veil of Time). Dropping a jump lieutenant in to support the SftS firebase also makes a lot of sense. It's less reliable of course, but should still be able to present the enemy with a few credible threats.

I hadn't thought about using a relic contemptor, that's a good idea I'll have to mull over.

Do you have any thoughts re: Razorback, Stormtalon, and/or Stormraven?