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So my kids 12&16 saved up and brought the Dark Imperium starter set which is pretty good overall. Of course the set is a bit limited and they will soon get bored. I love PC strategy games but have played a game or two with them and have to adjudicate from time to time!

My question is; If I were to get an army myself to play with and for them to use for more variation which army would be a good match with the ones from Dark Imperium. The armies the set comes with are about 900pts, or so my son tells me. I have been looking at the starter sets for Tyranids and Necrons but i'm not that bothered what I get, but want to keep costs controlled so probably not Orks!

I cant seem to find out anywhere what the points value for the starter set are and it doesn't even detail the exact units/equipment in them to work it out, and being an utter newbie I haven't a clue and don't have any codex's. I gather the codex from Dark imperium is 8th edition which is a double edged sword. It means I would need to get the most up to date codex/Index (still not exactly sure what the difference is) for what ever army I get. I can't seem to find starter sets with codex's in them.

So.......I'd love advice about how best to go about getting an army to play against the Dark Imperium box set armies, but keeping costs controlled as for all I know within a few weeks the kids won't want to play anymore.....

Thanks for the help.....

Hmm... maybe Eldar would be a good fit for you? Where the marines and death guard are fairly slow and methodical, Eldar are speedy and more specialized, and also more fragile.

Whichever army you choose, the Start Collecting box is the way to go. You get a decent discount over buying the kits separately, and the minis contained can be fielded as a legal army on their own. The Eldar one is pretty cool too, coming with wraithguard and a wraithlord (basically construct warriors piloted by the soul of a fallen eldar), as well as a farseer (psyker HQ) and a war walker.

Yes, Dark Imperium is 8th edition, but most armies now have a full Codex released. 8th is completely incompatible with any of the previous editions Codexes. If you want to keep costs to a minimum, I'll suggest picking up a second-hand copy of the relevant Index book instead of the Codex (the Index books are 'compilations' that were released with the new edition to allow people to play before they got around to that faction's Codex - thus now most have a codex a supply of cheap second hand Indexes should be a good way of getting the rules you need).

As stated, the getting started boxes offer a good discount - the only issue with the Eldar one is that it is missing a "Troop" selection, which is unusual for the starter boxes. They'll be anything from ~250 points (Imperial Guard) to ~500 points (Space Marines etc), so on their own won't be enough to get to ~900.

Necrons start collecting is about 440pts
Tyranids is about 330pts

edgarina wrote:
So my kids 12&16 saved up and brought the Dark Imperium starter set which is pretty good overall. Of course the set is a bit limited and they will soon get bored. I love PC strategy games but have played a game or two with them and have to adjudicate from time to time!

My question is; If I were to get an army myself to play with and for them to use for more variation which army would be a good match with the ones from Dark Imperium. The armies the set comes with are about 900pts, or so my son tells me. I have been looking at the starter sets for Tyranids and Necrons but i'm not that bothered what I get, but want to keep costs controlled so probably not Orks!

I cant seem to find out anywhere what the points value for the starter set are and it doesn't even detail the exact units/equipment in them to work it out, and being an utter newbie I haven't a clue and don't have any codex's. I gather the codex from Dark imperium is 8th edition which is a double edged sword. It means I would need to get the most up to date codex/Index (still not exactly sure what the difference is) for what ever army I get. I can't seem to find starter sets with codex's in them.

So.......I'd love advice about how best to go about getting an army to play against the Dark Imperium box set armies, but keeping costs controlled as for all I know within a few weeks the kids won't want to play anymore.....

Thanks for the help.....

So it's important to realize that the points costs on the starter set are a bit higher than if you were to buy a Start Collecting styled product. It's because the starter sets are always intended as a loss leader product--more content for cheaper.

You don't really see starter sets having a codex with them at this point, which is a bit of a bummer but the two armies in Dark Imperium were intended to be something you can play with right out of the box.

Your idea of Tyranids is a good one--but be aware that there are potentially two "Start Collecting"($85 price point, flat, with discounts built in) sets for Tyranids. There is, on the US webstore, a "Tyranids Starter Collection" which contains the "Index"(which was a cheap book containing multiple armies published at the start of 8th edition so people could start playing right away--it's invalidated by the Tyranid Codex existing however) and per the product info, the old Start Collecting Tyranids set(a Hive Tyrant, brood of Gargoyles, and Warriors).
There's a new Start Collecting Tyranids set that has a Trygon, Genestealer Brood, and Genestealer Broodlord model.
The old Start Collecting set would have a formation in it, that's something that wouldn't apply to 8th edition sadly.

Thanks for the advice so far, it's really useful. Defo want to move forwards and that helps narrow it down a bit so I can direct my searching/reading some more.

edgarina wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far, it's really useful. Defo want to move forwards and that helps narrow it down a bit so I can direct my searching/reading some more.

Do your kids have their actual codices or are they just using the booklets that come in Dark Imperium?
Because it does make a bit of a difference once they have access to all of their armies' rules(stuff like <Chapter> benefits, etc).

Any Xenos choice is good. It'll provide a nice third offset. Take something that looks menacing so your kids can gang up against you and feel awesome for doing so.

If controlling cost is the primary focus, then second hand loyalist marines is probably the safest bet, but no variety then, you all play marines.

If you don't care much what you play, you could try eBay or other auction sites for "40k army". Or variants of that.

Another decent option would be a starter box plus a couple more units, if you prefer new.

It's cliche, but either play something you like the look of, or learn about the mechanics of the game and play an army that suits a style you like. Those two things seem to drive long term enjoyment of the hobby.

We just have the books that came with the box set so they don't have the full rules around chapters etc. If they stick with it I'll get them the full books.

The 12 year old loves the painting aspect, all he does is draw and paint, and has done an awesome job, my 47 year old eyes can't even see all the detail on the Pox warriors. I think I'll get a starter set so they have clean models then index then supplement with what ever I need to to make up to 900pts. I do like the research side of it all so it's no hardship to put in the time.

Any votes for or particular problems with Necrons, visually I like them and I fancy something with Psych, looks like one of the leader characters has psych from the picture at least. I guess play style I like ranged.

Thanks for the ongoing comments, awesome community by the way, nicer than the PC etc games forums I frequent...

Ultimately I recommend you choosing a faction whose look and feel you like.

But if you like psykers, then Necrons are definitely not the way to go. They're one of the two factions in the game without access to any sort of psychic powers at all (the other being the Tau.)

Check out Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero. Both cost much the same as Dark Imperium and contain a lot of miniatures.

Betrayal at Calth has 30 Tactical Marines, 2 Characters, 5 Terminators and a Dreadnought.

Burning of Prospero has 30 tactical marines, 2 characters, 5 terminators, 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters of Silence.

IMO Betrayal at Calth is the better set as you can use all of it as a single space marine chapter without allies - any chapter. Burning of Prospero has chapter specific heroes (Space Wolf and Thousand Sons), and the Custodes and Sisters of Silence have their own rules spread among several books.

So Betrayal at Calth plus Codex Adeptus Astartes gets you your army's rules and 900-1000 points of stuff, depending on loadout. It's probably the cheapest option to getting into that point range.

Sounds like you want an army with a relatively low model count, as they tend to be cheaper. That means Tyranids and Orks are pretty much out.

Although one of your kids already has an Imperium army, if you aren't averse to more Imperium you could get Custodes, Grey Nights, or a tank heavy Astra Militarum army. You could potentially get 900pts with a single digit number of models for those armies, though you'd probably end up in the teens in practice.

If you don't want Imperium, you could look at Eldar. Loads of Psykers, and lots of elite troops that give you a lot of points for your money. You could look at wraithguard for Eldar who are extremely elite units, basically the psychic imprint of dead Eldar that control robots. They are basically an arrogant precursor race who think they know what's best for the galaxy, despite being responsible for some pretty hideous stuff (see Slaanesh).

Necrons fit this bill too, though pointed out they have zero access to psychic powers. They do have star god's called C'Tan who have powers somewhat similar though. If you like the idea of mindless killing machines that come back to life when they die, this is the faction for you!

Then there's Tau. Again, no psychic. But if you like Gundam style battle suits then they are worth considering! If you went for a battle suit heavy force, again it would be possible to field 900 pts with single digit models if you wanted. They also have the honour of being, arguably, the nearest thing to 'good guys' in the setting!

I hope this is helpful, but I would echo the sentiment above that even if you aren't that bothered which faction you pick right now, you should still try and pick whichever one the aesthetic and fluff appeals to you most. You'll have more fun that way

edgarina wrote:

I cant seem to find out anywhere what the points value for the starter set are and it doesn't even detail the exact units/equipment in them to work it out, and being an utter newbie I haven't a clue and don't have any codex's. I gather the codex from Dark imperium is 8th edition which is a double edged sword. It means I would need to get the most up to date codex/Index (still not exactly sure what the difference is) for what ever army I get. I can't seem to find starter sets with codex's in them.

Hi Edgarina, no-one else seems to have mentioned it but in the Dark Imperium force books (the ones marked "Primaris Space Marines" and "Death Guard"), on the very last page (p.24 in the Marine book) are points values (disclaimer - there are in my Space Marines one at least). Now, they're probably out of date given the codex releases but they're probably within spitting distance.

You work out the points by taking the points per model and adding on any weapons options. so, for instance, the "Intercessor Squad" is listed as "Models per unit : 5" and "points per model : xx" (they may be obsolete, but I'll keep them hidden just in case - never know who's watching!)

On the Intercessor squad datasheet (p.22), in the wargear box, you can see what this squad carries (Bolt rifle, bolt pistol, frag & krak grenades) so you then go back to p.24, look up those weapons and add those on to cost per model, then multiply by number of models (in this case, 5). If you'd prefer it in "Excel-speak", it's SUM((ModelCost+WeaponsCosts)*Number in squad). Obviously individual weapons or other options are added on a case-by-case basis (the classic is the squad Special Weapon, but generally there's only one or two of those!)

Apologies if some of that is "teaching grandmother to suck eggs" but just making sure it's covered!

Now, as regards the "Start Collecting" sets, then yes, you're right, they don't have points values. What they DO have, though, in the Assembly Instructions, is a copy of the unit Datasheet and on this is the Power Level box. If you look back at the Intercessor Squad sheet above on p.22, you'll see in the top right it says "6 Power" and while this is a very broad brush and no doubt there will be many people pointing out its flaws, it is useful as a very quick 'pick up and go' calculation, so long as no-one is taking the mickey with it (translation - taking ALL the upgrades, especially if the opponent is using particularly un-upgradeable units - like, for instance, those Intercessors). You will probably miss out on many of those 'Special Abilities' mentioned on the sheet as they remain Codex-only, but it will let you field the unit, in it's way

So, what is a particularly non-codex-necessary Start Collecting! box? I can only speak for the army I collect, but the Aeldari one is fairly stand-alone (the Farseer suffers by missing out on his extra psychics though), but will be relatively vulnerable to your lad's plasma weaponry. Also, it is an interesting example of one of those mismatches between points and power level, as both are more-or-less 40-ish Power but the DI Marines are .. well, I get them closer to 800ish but that's by the by really, however the Aeldari is closer to just 500, even with the more expensive weapon upgrades. They are very 'clean' models to paint, with the probably exception of the Seer, though if you stay with them then like him/her, many of the Infantry models do like their little gemstones and such...

Painting wise, yes, Necrons are easy if you stick to the classic "Terminator" look!

Since no one has answered this yet for you:

If you equip all models WYSIWYG:
Death Guard from Dark Imperium are 715 points
Space Marines from Dark Imperium are 831

Tyranids are numerous and their units don't cost much points-wise so you need to buy a lot. If you don't want to spend the money on orks then I would advise against tyranids.

 John Prins wrote:
Check out Betrayal at Calth or Burning of Prospero. Both cost much the same as Dark Imperium and contain a lot of miniatures.

Betrayal at Calth has 30 Tactical Marines, 2 Characters, 5 Terminators and a Dreadnought.

Burning of Prospero has 30 tactical marines, 2 characters, 5 terminators, 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters of Silence.

IMO Betrayal at Calth is the better set as you can use all of it as a single space marine chapter without allies - any chapter. Burning of Prospero has chapter specific heroes (Space Wolf and Thousand Sons), and the Custodes and Sisters of Silence have their own rules spread among several books.

So Betrayal at Calth plus Codex Adeptus Astartes gets you your army's rules and 900-1000 points of stuff, depending on loadout. It's probably the cheapest option to getting into that point range.

I'll second Betrayal at Calith, the marines in the box are nice but not loaded with tinsy detail so you won't have the "47 year old eyes" problem

Apparently, there is a new starter set incoming with two new armies - you might want to wait for this:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/752115.page

Thanks for the news about the new box set. Ive basically decided on Necrons so might well wait, just ordered the Xeno's 1 index.

Ive skimmed through a fair amount of the threads but no estimated release date which is frustrating, but looks very cool.

From the way GW does rumors now, it's very likely out by the end of the month.

 Yarium wrote:
Any Xenos choice is good. It'll provide a nice third offset. Take something that looks menacing so your kids can gang up against you and feel awesome for doing so.

Agree with this. Personally I would recommend the Tyranids. The bugs are a typical sci-fi type villain that works against every other army and is easily recognizable as a "bad guy" army by most people who don't have any info about the game. Think Starship Troopers. The start collecting box is also pretty good value. It has an HQ (Broodlord), some troops (Genestealers) and a big nasty (Trygon). That should be enough to get you started I think.

The only drawback to Tyranids is if you decide to play them long term they are a horde army so can be more expensive to build than say any of the Space Marines armies (loyal or chaos). But they are quite fun to play overall.

 silashand wrote:

 Yarium wrote:
Any Xenos choice is good. It'll provide a nice third offset. Take something that looks menacing so your kids can gang up against you and feel awesome for doing so.

Agree with this. Personally I would recommend the Tyranids. The bugs are a typical sci-fi type villain that works against every other army and is easily recognizable as a "bad guy" army by most people who don't have any info about the game. Think Starship Troopers. The start collecting box is also pretty good value. It has an HQ (Broodlord), some troops (Genestealers) and a big nasty (Trygon). That should be enough to get you started I think.

The only drawback to Tyranids is if you decide to play them long term they are a horde army so can be more expensive to build than say any of the Space Marines armies (loyal or chaos). But they are quite fun to play overall.

I would definitely recommend tyranids. They work quite well against those armies, are pretty good at the moment, can make a wide variety of different armies and most importantly look amazing, especially when painted well!