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 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Wyrmalla wrote:
Meanwhile we're onto our second car bombing in Ukraine this week. Its like the assassination budget for the Russian Intelligence Agency is almost due to be renewed and they're doing their best to spend it.

Car bombs in Ukraine is most likely the GRU's handiwork. Double the agencies = double the budget = double the assassinations!

That's why the USA has so many agencies !

I am a bit surprised of the number of assassinations that happened in England. Why in England ? Aren't there any ex agent in France or Germany ?

Yes ok, but why did they cooperate with MI5/6 ? What does British secret services have that every traitor russian spy want to work with them ?

I have never seen so much russiaphobia before. They are the ones protecting the world by killing terrorist, at least show them some respect because they die for us all.
And now what ? Everytime someone die, it is going to be Russia's fault ? Come on...
Just before the FIFA world cup in Russia and the election ? It is pretty obvious that the UK governement, as usual, lies and try to manipulate its own people and maybe the Russian living abroad.
How funny that in 24 hours (yes just 24h) my own government went from (official statment): there is no proof, and until we see proof, no comment" to "It is Russia and it is despicable and we should punish the Russian".

Assad didn't and don't barrel bomb its own people... He bombs rebels and islamist terrorist, like, you know, the ones killing people because they are gay or kissed in public. Good guys for sure !

Do you really believe that in Japan, some guys from a crazy cult of death did manage to produce and use sarin gaz, but a non state actor couldn't make and use just a little dose of this toxin used on the poor russian guy and his daughter ?

Of course, but now we are in 2018. And just because some country that doesn't even exist anymore did someting wrong and bad 40 years ago, doesn't mean that Russia did it.
- they have no motive
-it is really not the good time to do it
- they get nothing from it
- they have almost no alibi

Only a fool would do it, and I don't think Putin to be a fool

 Disciple of Fate wrote:

 godardc wrote:
I have never seen so much russiaphobia before. They are the ones protecting the world by killing terrorist, at least show them some respect because they die for us all.
And now what ? Everytime someone die, it is going to be Russia's fault ? Come on...
Just before the FIFA world cup in Russia and the election ? It is pretty obvious that the UK governement, as usual, lies and try to manipulate its own people and maybe the Russian living abroad.
How funny that in 24 hours (yes just 24h) my own government went from (official statment): there is no proof, and until we see proof, no comment" to "It is Russia and it is despicable and we should punish the Russian".

Assad didn't and don't barrel bomb its own people... He bombs rebels and islamist terrorist, like, you know, the ones killing people because they are gay or kissed in public. Good guys for sure !

Do you really believe that in Japan, some guys from a crazy cult of death did manage to produce and use sarin gaz, but a non state actor couldn't make and use just a little dose of this toxin used on the poor russian guy and his daughter ?

The truth is Russophobia, truly mighty days for the right.

They aren't the ones protecting the world. The West is fighting the same terrorists. Only we do it without propping up a mass murderer and willingly bombing civilians. How can you respect that?

I guess you think everybody lies but Russia, even with solid proof.

Assad does barrel bomb civilians, his own civilians as he keeps claiming he is the real government. For heaven's sake man he even bombs hospitals and aid convoys. I guess you swallowed Russian and Syrian propaganda on this hook, line and sinker. Your ideas are just out there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
Of course, but now we are in 2018. And just because some country that doesn't even exist anymore did someting wrong and bad 40 years ago, doesn't mean that Russia did it.
- they have no motive
-it is really not the good time to do it
- they get nothing from it
- they have almost no alibi

Only a fool would do it, and I don't think Putin to be a fool

Except when the fool shot down MH17 and poisoned Litvinenko. Russia enjoys high profile stupidity, this fits right in. As multiple security agencies think too.

He is the real government (who else, if not him ?), but the people he fights are not his citizens: they don't even have the same flag. They seceded from their own country. Would you say that the Confederates were citizens of the Union ? I would not.
He may bombs hospital (I haven't even heard about this but it probably happens, I agree), but:
1) it is war. Sorry but wars are horrible, horrible things
2) and you KNOW IT, terrorist hide amongst children and civilians and hospitals. This is what they want you to think: "the people killing the terrorists killed one child ! They are monsters ! Let the terrorists who killed thousands children and women alive !" They use your emotionality against you, stay rational.

I don't think everybody lies but Russia, but I think our governements may have an agenda. You know, exactly like all those women supposedly raped by Trump that never ever even talked about this, but the minute he ran for the Presidency they sudainly woke up...
And yes, I am aware the russian did kill some guys before. This is exactly why I think it is not the Russian this time, it is so easy to make freeble-minded people believe this just because the two murders are alike... This is the only proof we have. Where are the proofs if they are so strong ?

The formula for the poison has been publicly available on Amazon for years, seriously everyone in the world have access to it... For 30$. But only Russia can make it. Sure. Let's believe it.

So, how has the West fought terrorism since Bush retired ?
We keept protecting afghanistan, that's good.
We destroyed Libya, not good.
We let ISIS in iraqi and Syria.
We gave money and weapons to "moderate" terrorists in Syria and Iraq because reasons.
We didn't help to destroy them except some air stikes. We did it for years, nothing happened.

Russia came, fight the terrorists, and they won. It took them like what, one or two years ? You seriously think that the USA alone couln't have done it faster ? So, the whole West doing almost nothing for years is criminal.
And you all know how much I love The West here.

 Dreadwinter wrote:

 godardc wrote:
He is the real government (who else, if not him ?), but the people he fights are not his citizens: they don't even have the same flag. They seceded from their own country. Would you say that the Confederates were citizens of the Union ?

Yes. We do consider the Confederates to have been citizens of the Union.

So, would you say the Union leaders were horrrible dictators killing innocent and should have been destroyed, as some said about the only legitimate government of Syria ?
I would not, and I don't think anyone here would.
In French, we have a saying: deux poids, deux mesures.
Which means basically: to handle two similar situations in opposite ways according to our best interests in defiance of objectivity.

So, if many people have many proof that the russian did it beyond any doubt, why don't they show the proof ?
Is it like the russian interference in the US elections ?
Or the proof that iraqi had wmd ?
I am laughing so hard right now

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The election has been meddled with at several levels.

1. Plenty of opposition candidate who had no hope. The only viable candidate was prevented from running.
2. Completely biased coverage on state-controlled media.
3. Compulsory voting to boost turnout, when it seemed the only way to express opposition to Putin was to not vote.
4. Ballot stuffing. (See point 3.)

But remember, Putin like Trump, has his base of supporters who think he's good for Russia. They are people who applaud the murder of "traitors", and will have been pleased to see what happened to Scripal.

No. This election was totally under controle with hundreds of assessors from all over the world and cameras
There were several candidates.
They were free to choose and they have chosen Putin.

In the last couple of years, in France, which has, to my knowledge, never been under suspiscions of frauds we had:
Ballot stuffing
An unprecedented amount of insignifiant candidates (11 candiates for the last election, some who didn't even made 2%)
The favourite candidates lost their immunity or came under investigation 1 month before the election...

In America you had the democrat fraud that made Sanders loose
A president elected with less popular vote than its opposant (not the first time)

Am I saying our democracies are bad ? No, it is the «normal» way of a democracy, overall it is pretty good. But how could we judge the russian for something we can't even do better ?
There isn't even cameras watching for ballot stuffing in France ! We can't even know it if it happened...
My president got about 65%, I am not surprised someone as Putin got 70%.
Please, I know you have been brainwashed to hate russia, but try to think by yourselves and WAIT.FOR.THE.PROOF (if they really have any, they will show us, one day).

Go ahead with the sanctions, you will just deteriorate the european economy further. The previous sanctions hurt the european more than the russian, and I don't think they will impose any new economic sanctions, Germany in particular seems very reluctant to it.
And still no proof, even when the Czech president asked for them. The day we see the proof that Russia did it, and did it because they are bad guys, I will stop arguing.

Presumption of innocence ?
ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat
the burden of proof is on the one who declares, not on one who denies ? Anyone ?

It reminds me of "they have WMD !!! We have no proof (so, let's make them, like the malicious people we are !) but trust us ! Let's kill everyone there !". Don't you remember ? You all have forgot that already ?

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Freakazoitt wrote:
Yeah yeah... after failing to explain what and how exactly Skripal accident happened it ended up with "But it was Putin, because he is bad".

Really? You're saying a nerve agent was accidentally put on someone's door handle?

No, he is saying that if a nerve agent was put there, nothing proves it was Russia.

https://francais.rt.com/international/50338-pas-besoin-mentir-president-tcheque-affirme-pays-produit-novitchok-skripal
(Czech Republic, Slovakia, Sweden or even United Kindgom are listed in this article). But why think before posting, since an old woman in England said it was Russia (without any proof of any kind), it must be true

Even their own lab can't identify it as a Novitchok from Russia (despite what the politics said before): https://francais.rt.com/international/49405-skripal-experts-militaires-britanniques-incapables-confirmer

So, only leftist reporters who agree with you have the right to write ?
Way to go, liberals ! I don't know why I keep speaking with people like you...
It is pretty clear that you know you are wrong but keep posting the same anyway

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Lol, rant away, just know that nobody will take you seriously if you hold up RT as a truthful source on their own employer.

So what is a truthful source for narrow minded people ?
And, it may be RT, but facts are facts !

Countries listed are not perpetrators, but produced the nerve agent. It was to show it could came from nearly everywhere.
I have showed you some facts, where are your heavily pointing facts ?
If not proven guilty, you should treat Russia innocent. If there is an honnest investigation, one day we will know everything. I am just asking for truth, not defending Russia, but I think hysteria and casual leftist hate for Russia led us here.
Again, what are «truthful» sources ? Reporters that point toward Russia ? So you are right because you are right, then ?
I always thought you to be an honnest, if misleaded, person.
I may have been wrong. Do you have an agenda against poor Russia ?

Ok, I tried Reuters, it is basically the same articles, minus the one showing that 5 countries made the nerve agent, with the Czech president confessing it. So, it is the same truth, but halfed. Nice. How is this better ? They just omitted an important piece of information.
And yes, you can't say someone is guilty just because he looks to be guilty. That is how the "tolerant" left works, I know, they don't care about facts or reality, only emotions, but usually when you accuse people without proofs it end up being false.

The only country not cooperating is England. They didn't even allowed Skripal family to see them... Strange, isn't it ?
So, the fact that others countries had the same weapons that was used isn't important to know who did it ?
Wow, I hope you never become investigator^^

Yeah exactly, all news have biais, they all belong to someone somewhere. No agency is perfectly true and neutral. So ...

Yeah, we have all the fake news media that don't speak about half of what happens in the world and then give you only half of the info on it (like, in France noone ever told that Ukrainian illegitimate governement prohibted to speak Russian in the country, when it was an official language there. Or that they were supported by neo nazis, etc. But it is ok, because they are the good guys fighting the Evil Empire of new URSS).
And then you have good media that, maybe are a bit biaised (but it is not difficult to see through it and to make some researchs) but give you the whole story !
What's the name of the US news agency that apologized for doing Fake News already ?

RT never told that. That me, roughly speaking, I aologize. They didn't prohibited it, they "drastically reduced it". Is that better ? If Donald suddenly asked for 75% of movies etc in Spanish, and that Spanish was the only language taught in school, what would the English speaking people of the USA think ?

That's funny, because earlier in this very thread, Wyrmalla told us that BBC was so biaised that he stopped reading it
To each their own, I guess
And I stopped reading when you said that I had to read...Vice.
Vice

No, don't worry: in fact, I am reading several newspapers, but, it just that Vice, Vice...
I think the Skripal case is, with the liberation of Crimea, the time I have had the most difficulty to find honest coverage on an event, and why I rely so much on RT. Usually I can use others. But be assured that the list that was given to me here won't be unused.

Any news about the case by the way ? Any proof ? Anything ? Or will this case be the same as with the plane in Ukraine: no info and suddenly disappearing from the news ?