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I'm working on building a Space Marines army that can take all comers. I'll likely be running Raven Guard chapter tactics. I've found lots of options for tank killing (lascannons, hammers, multi-melta) with lots of platform options. I'm really struggling to find good horde killing options. Assault cannons seem to be the best option. There are also some troop options that can put out a lot of shots, but usually at short range so you'd better wipe out the horde in one turn or they will be into your line. Does anyone have suggestions on units that I should take in a well balanced list that can fill the role of horde killer? Razorbacks seem like a great option, but I will mostly use scouts for troop choices to screen. Razorbacks seem like a bit of a waste if I don't put anything into them. Stormraven and Stormtalon also seem like good options, but I don't love the idea of taking a couple of large, high cost models, that will get focus fired in the first round.

Also as a follow up. Is there any point to taking a weapon/troop option that doesn't fit into one of these two buckets? Both can be used to shoot down MEQ or TEQ.

Bolter aggressors shooting twice with decent enough big punch fists for getting in close.

especially since you are running raven guard.

alternatively assault bolting inceptors

a storm raven with hurricanes and stuff would probably also do well

it all depends on the amount of points you want to spend.

If you are going for anti-horde:

Heavy bolters

Assbacks

More assault cannons - via Dreads, etc

Get some hordes of your own e.g. ally in Impy Guard with Russes and Hellhounds, etc.

 BigErn wrote:
I'm working on building a Space Marines army that can take all comers. I'll likely be running Raven Guard chapter tactics. I've found lots of options for tank killing (lascannons, hammers, multi-melta) with lots of platform options. I'm really struggling to find good horde killing options. Assault cannons seem to be the best option. There are also some troop options that can put out a lot of shots, but usually at short range so you'd better wipe out the horde in one turn or they will be into your line. Does anyone have suggestions on units that I should take in a well balanced list that can fill the role of horde killer? Razorbacks seem like a great option, but I will mostly use scouts for troop choices to screen. Razorbacks seem like a bit of a waste if I don't put anything into them. Stormraven and Stormtalon also seem like good options, but I don't love the idea of taking a couple of large, high cost models, that will get focus fired in the first round.

Also as a follow up. Is there any point to taking a weapon/troop option that doesn't fit into one of these two buckets? Both can be used to shoot down MEQ or TEQ.

I don't really have to deal with hordes in my local meta, but I'd say Stormbolters and Hurricane Bolters are probably your best bet for thinning hordes efficiently, so Agressors and veterans (not sure which ones are the best choice here) with stormbolters. I believe Vanguard Veterans with twin Chainswords could work, but I haven't been able to test that yet - the one time I brought 3 squads of Black Templar Vanguards all of them failed both of their charge rolls after DS'ing,

On the follow-up: Autocannons (of any kind) are a one-size-fits-all solution to killing heretics and xenos. Get a bunch of dreadnoughts, slap two autocannons on each side. maybe get a Deredeo, too. Well, and Predators.

I've been on the receiving end of Inceptors fairly often. A bit more on the pricy side, but 18 Heavy Bolter shots that you can drop exactly where you need them isn't bad at all.

totally agree with the bolters Inceptors and assault cannons.

Crushing charge and 18 shots is no joke. just drop them in and let loose.

Storm talons, Redemptor w asscan, and razorback asscan have been really helpful in clearing swaths of cultists, boyz, & gaunts (actually havent played guard). they also do a pretty good job of hurting marines (imp&chaos) and light vehicles (speeders, bikes, rhinos) as well.

Tarantula Sentry Turrets are still my go-to.

Only thing I've ever feared as guard were the assault cannons, hurricane bolters, stormbolters, and aggressors/inceptors depending on situation. I've also found the thunderfire cannon to be annoying at times but not sure if it's actually that great for price.

Heavy bolters are a trap, you rarely are going to have enough shots to justify it for the points. Even a full Dev squad with heavy bolters is going to be lucky to kill about half a guard squad. They're great against Marines, genestealers, stuff like that, but they're overkill for guardsmen.

You need volume of fire more than anything else. AP is secondary. Keep that in mind when thinking about your anti horde options. Also think about how that weapon is going to get to it's target. For example, bolter aggressors. I've often found them a bit of a joke as guard. They're a very fragile target, and anyone they're a threat to, like guard, will focus the heck out of them. If you hide them, they lose their double tap ability and then I'm just going to kill them next turn.

Scout Bikes.

Scout Bikes.

Really just take Scout Bikes.

I will say, though, spamming Aggressors as RG is hilarious and actually mildly effective. But Scout Bikes.

 meleti wrote:
Scout Bikes.

Scout Bikes.

Really just take Scout Bikes.

I will say, though, spamming Aggressors as RG is hilarious and actually mildly effective. But Scout Bikes.

Aggressors will outperform scout bikers when it comes to horde killing. Scout bikers cant use stormbolters, btw. You said they can in my poxwalker/cultists thread.

All about the using RG Strategem to get those agressors in range to remove a horde.

 p5freak wrote:

 meleti wrote:
Scout Bikes.

Scout Bikes.

Really just take Scout Bikes.

I will say, though, spamming Aggressors as RG is hilarious and actually mildly effective. But Scout Bikes.

Aggressors will outperform scout bikers when it comes to horde killing. Scout bikers cant use stormbolters, btw. You said they can in my poxwalker/cultists thread.

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

No one mentioned storm ravens yet? Two hurricane bolters and twin assault cannon will decimate any horde unit, no matter if you keep your heavy bolters or not. As a nice bonus, most horde units have no way to retaliate against it, since they cannot charge it and usually don't have the guns to harm them through shooting.

nekooni wrote:
I believe Vanguard Veterans with twin Chainswords could work, but I haven't been able to test that yet - the one time I brought 3 squads of Black Templar Vanguards all of them failed both of their charge rolls after DS'ing,

Don't bother. You get 41 S4 AP0 attacks out of one full unit - barely enough to kill 10 guardmen, let alone a unit of 20 pox walkers or 30 boyz.

 EagleArk wrote:

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

Ok, yes and no. SM can, BA cant. The BA scout bike sarge only can use pistols or close combat weapons.

 Jidmah wrote:
No one mentioned storm ravens yet? Two hurricane bolters and twin assault cannon will decimate any horde unit, no matter if you keep your heavy bolters or not. As a nice bonus, most horde units have no way to retaliate against it, since they cannot charge it and usually don't have the guns to harm them through shooting.

I second this, the stormraven is an absolute nightmare for orks.

Razorback are very good even without anything embarked. In fact they shouldn't move for the entire game due to their heavy weapon so they're not generally used as transports but as gun boats. Their transport capacity is useful to reduce the number of the total drops, but basically nothing else.

I haven't tried it out yet but looks promising is the Relic Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank. It can fire 2d6 shots hitting at strength 5, AP -2 that negates cover bonus saves with 24 in range. It can also 4d6 that turn but can't fire the next turn.

The issue with the sicaran or any marine tank right now is they are exempt from chapter tactics, are only T7 3+sv so bread and butter killing for any list. Marines tanks need some love but right now their rules are pretty bad. Static Razorbacks will do work with no real durability drop. The hull feels overcosted so you need to max your dakka and never move to have any points efficiency. They realy suffer from being the yard stick to beat, outside of comp.

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

Ok, yes and no. SM can, BA cant. The BA scout bike sarge only can use pistols or close combat weapons.

That's odd, does that mean he can't take combi weapons either?

AC and hurricane bolters are SM's go to anti horde currently.

Issue is that most of platforms that carry them are a bit over priced to be effective.

If HB's were heavy 4, it could make a viable sub for AC, but for 2 more points AC performs better than two HB's.

 EagleArk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

Ok, yes and no. SM can, BA cant. The BA scout bike sarge only can use pistols or close combat weapons.

That's odd, does that mean he can't take combi weapons either?

Yes. Thats why i thought regular scout bikers sarges can't use stormbolters either.

Budzynam wrote:
I haven't tried it out yet but looks promising is the Relic Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank. It can fire 2d6 shots hitting at strength 5, AP -2 that negates cover bonus saves with 24 in range. It can also 4d6 that turn but can't fire the next turn.

Arcuses are much better against MEQ. S5 AP-2 is overkill against Guardsmen or Hormagaunts.

Assault Cannon Razorbacks are decent. Don't feel like something absolutely has to go inside them. Fielding a Dev Squad? Why not take a Razorback?

Bolter Aggressors are good stuff. They can pump out a terrifying amount of shots.

Scout Bikes. Each model has a twin bolter, and each rider can be equipped with either a bolter or a shotgun. At close range, that's 6 shots per model. Plus they have high mobility, and a strat that can cause mortal wounds.

Missile launcher Devs aren't bad. 4d6 shots is nothing to sneeze at, and they have the flexibility of also having decent anti-armor capacity. Plus, there's a strat that can cause mortal wound to targets with Fly.

Heavy bolter Devs and Aggressors are your best bets IMO. I like the Aggressors with FS gauntlets but they can be a bit more tricky to play.

 Primark G wrote:
Heavy bolter Devs and Aggressors are your best bets IMO. I like the Aggressors with FS gauntlets but they can be a bit more tricky to play.

Meh to the HB Devs. Seems like it ought to be impressive, but that's only 12 shots. That hasn't been impressive for a couple editions now. It is worth having at least one infantry-toted HB in your list because there's a strat that (wait for it) inflicts mortal wounds, but it's usually best to let a Scout tote it. ML Devs are apt to crank out more shots, and also have better anti-armor capacity than HB Devs.

Flamers in general are bad in this edition, but there's a snap-fit kit for FS-Aggressors that's cheaper than the regular box, so there's something to be said for them there.

Rapier weapons batteries from FW are really good. The Quad launcher option is comically underpriced. 4d3 S5 shots at 60" that don't need LoS, plus the close range anti tank option, all for 85 points.

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

Ok, yes and no. SM can, BA cant. The BA scout bike sarge only can use pistols or close combat weapons.

That's odd, does that mean he can't take combi weapons either?

Yes. Thats why i thought regular scout bikers sarges can't use stormbolters either.

Pretty sure index scout bikers can take storm bolter sarge as such all scout bikers can.

Breng77 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

I dont have the book on me right now, but I'm fairly sure that the Sargent can take a storm bolter. The rest of the squad cant though.

Ok, yes and no. SM can, BA cant. The BA scout bike sarge only can use pistols or close combat weapons.

That's odd, does that mean he can't take combi weapons either?

Yes. Thats why i thought regular scout bikers sarges can't use stormbolters either.

Pretty sure index scout bikers can take storm bolter sarge as such all scout bikers can.

That's the correct interpretation. It's the same reason that some BA characters like Sanguinary Priests can take Jump Packs even though that's not a wargear for them in the codex.

For those who don't have an index nearby, a Scout Bike sergeant can take a wargear from the sergeant equipment list, which includes a boltgun or any combi-weapon.

Ally in some sisters of battle.
[Nod]

Aggressors, repulsors, fire raptors, gman lol

Ally in Imperial Guard and just bring Punishers or HWT. Paying for the Relic of Lost Cadia is also smart. You can build a serious anti-horde contingent of guard for like 400 points.