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Hey everyone,

i'm currently playing a non-competitive / semi-ish competitive list with some fun things in it. I had only a couple of games
with this list & was curious how to improve it without going full competitive (i'm a bit too anxious to go to a tournament, but
maybe give it a shot in the future).

I want to keep it fluffy, i personally love the Crimson Slaughter fluff & their Poltergeist-possession and full-out insanity. So
the demonic theme as well as certain units are a irreplaceable (Possessed, Exalted Champions & Daemon-Engines). I
also added units nobody plays because they're.. not that good? Pretty much everything is Khorne or unmarked and my Lord
is actually a Lady (converted Darkoath Warqueen). An insane, female Dark Apostle that uses her warband to wreak havoc,
that's why the Army is called what its called. So, here's what i usually field:

+ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [56 PL, 917pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Gametype: Matched

Gifts of Chaos (1 Relic)

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 74pts]: Combi-bolter, Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: 4. Hatred Incarnate, Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power maul, The Black Mace, Warlord

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 75pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power axe

+ Elites +

Mutilators [7 PL, 126pts]: Mark of Khorne, 3x Mutilator

Possessed [11 PL, 186pts]: Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, 8x Possessed

Possessed [11 PL, 186pts]: Icon of Wrath, Mark of Khorne, 8x Possessed

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [3 PL, 40pts]: 9x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun, No Chaos Mark
Cultist Champion: Autogun

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [34 PL, 576pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Renegade Chapters

+ Heavy Support +

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Khorne

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Khorne

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Khorne

+ HQ +

Sorcerer with Jump Pack [7 PL, 120pts]: Bolt pistol, Death Hex, Force sword, No Chaos Mark, Warptime

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Daemons) [26 PL, 502pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Khorne

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]: The Crimson Crown

Bloodmaster [3 PL, 56pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Flesh Hounds [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Flesh Hound

Flesh Hounds [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Flesh Hound

Flesh Hounds [4 PL, 75pts]: 5x Flesh Hound

+ Troops +

Bloodletters [8 PL, 165pts]: 19x Bloodletter, Bloodreaper, Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos



The idea was to get a lot of CSM-Daemon units into the Army so the buffs from the Daemons Detachment hit units that
somewhat profit from it while staying true to my idea of the fluff. The Rhino's are filled with the Possessed & Characters.
The Mutilators & Jumppack Sorc are deepstriking, so is the 20-man Bloodletter unit. One of the Bloodmasters may be
summoned instead of being fielded directly, the reroll of the Charge distance is quite useful on the Hounds & Fiends.
3 CP go to the Deepstrike / Relic's, so i only have 5 left which is always a problem but i like my Queen to have some
punch. The Crimson Crown proved to be highly valueable for the Possessed & Fiends as well as the hounds. The hounds
and cultists are basically the meat-shield while the hounds also provide some DtW. The Mutilators are sometimes fun &
sometimes useless - a good distraction. And the usual Bloodletter bomb does what it is supposed to do. What do you
think? Any ideas to make this list maybe even more aggressive?

My only suggestion is I think a Helbrute would be a better choice than mutilators. You can dual fisticuffs the HB to keep the melee capability if you'd like. Everything else seems good to me.

A double fisticuffs Helbrute does sound interesting. But i feel the Maulerfiends already do what a Brute would but are a bit more resilient.

I was thinking about Warp Talons - but they're rather expensive points wise but would profit from the daemon buffs. Maybe ditch the Spearhead detachment, put everything in the Battalion minus the Sorc & Muti's and add some Warp Talon? Anyone experience with Warp Talons?

I love talons aesthetically, but couldn't get them to work for me most days. A unit of raptors with meltaguns or flamers could benefit from renegade.

I've not used warp talons yet and I'm on the fence about building my kit. I think they've got potential, but I dunno, that one time that I bring these guys onto the board from deepstrike and they fail their charge roll.. I feel like I'd wanna flip the table. It's the one thing I need them to do, and they didn't do it.

Maulerfriends and rhinos, make sure you keep your screen up. You definitely do not want them getting shithole'd by some puny unit of shitkickers that deepstriked on to the field. I'd maybe look at blobbing a unit of cultists up to 20-30.. the bigger the better! Keep them around your priority units as best you can as a screen and when the time's right, pull them off the board and redeploy them at full strength with tide of traitors. A unit of 10 cultists isn't going to withstand much fire though I'm sure you already know this. If you've got them for capping points, that fine and all, but don't expect much from them in such small numbers. As far as mutilators go, all I've got to say is "that 4 inch move though". I know they advance, I got it, but still. Perhaps Obliterators would be better since you would have a shooting threat on the field which has the Daemon keyword and also benefits from the legion trait and which actually works really well since their weaponry is assault 3! I would like to see a unit of berserkers on the field, since they do anything a unit of Possessed can do, but better..and twice, but you've said you'd like to keep the Possessed so there you have it. I feel like 3 units of flesh hounds might be a bit much, though I know you're going for the extra CP on the outrider detachment. Maybe swap it over to a Patrol and either drop a unit of flesh hounds, or add 2 extra flesh hounds to each unit. Also, I think having a flying daemon prince or Heldrake would be a gnarly addition to this list but you'd really have to rework your numbers to get him in. On that note, you have virtually 0 shooting. Flyers are going to be a huge problem for this list, but such is the life of a melee focused list.

I do agree with the comment about the helbrute though. A double fisted helbrute with the renegade legion trait and affected by warp time puts him (or her) in line for a turn 1 charge. While it doesn't have the Daemon keyword, it is about 30 points cheaper than a maulerfriend. Besides, you've still got 2 other maulerfriends on the board

Also, you're using 2 relics as I'm sure you already noticed. How does that work since its a relic for CSM, then another from Chaos Daemons.. I know you're paying the 3 CP to do so, but does the wording on that stratagem let you include the secondary relic from another faction?

I can't imagine using warptalons without warptime to boost them.
(or failing that, the reroll aura from a daemon character)
if you warptime a renegade they can get a really good movement on the turn they drop. Theoretically enough to jump a screen and multicharge juicy things behind.

Worth noting you don't need the Icon of Wrath on your Possessed if you are going to keep them close to your Bloodmasters as they will provide you will charge rerolls.

I've tried to make Possessed work and honestly there's no point taking them over Berzerkers *especially* if you are going to put them in rhinos anyway. The only way I see them working is Alpha Legion with warptime and Slaanesh/Khorne daemon character support.