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227+

No stomps

Melee Weapon does 3 dmg.

Sounds like I'm getting 4 paperweights.

227's about what expected sadly, I expected between 175-250.

I actually like the toned down stats.

Makes the Chaos daemon engines more appealing since they too come with 12 wounds, 5+ invul, and seeing these things spammed everywhere wont be too much of a Game changer.

If you wanted bigger, badder, you're gonna have to pay more. (in both points and currency)

Later releases might see them getting more weapon options. But yes, the default loadout seems underwhelming, especially for Admech, who have a lot of problems but aren't really suffering from a lack of anti-tank weaponry in the slightest.

So they are releasing a model that is a bit weak for the competitive scene... instead of ultra broken...

Thats shows caution. I like it.

We needs things to be less deadly and more expensive point wise.

When will people learn that is not that all those "Yeah it works but is overpriced by 30-50 points" the units that are unbalanced, but the high end of the competitive scene the real problem here.

 Galas wrote:
So they are releasing a model that is a bit weak for the competitive scene... instead of ultra broken...

Thats shows caution. I like it.

We needs things to be less deadly and more expensive point wise.

When will people learn that is not that all those "Yeah it works but is overpriced by 30-50 points" the units that are unbalanced, but the high end of the competitive scene the real problem here.

I'm going to lean more towards GW just not having any real idea what works or what doesn't in their own game. Caution would imply some sort of attempt at trying to deal with some of the issues Admech or Knight armies face at the moment. This doesn't really do that. It's just more of the same anti-tank firepower that both armies already have in spades.

I dunno. Having multiple fast smaller knights running about is kind of what knights need. They themselves already have a lot of viable weapon loadouts. Having smaller guys that dont cost nearly as much but stick with the knight theme is pretty nice.

 Lance845 wrote:
I dunno. Having multiple fast smaller knights running about is kind of what knights need. They themselves already have a lot of viable weapon loadouts. Having smaller guys that dont cost nearly as much but stick with the knight theme is pretty nice.

I guess that they're chaff for a knight? expensive chaff but none the less. I'd have hoped they were approx 200 with the loadout from the box cover.

I have to say their ranged weapons are incredibly overpriced.

It costs 13 points to go from a HEAVY STUBBER (Heavy 3) to a Melta (Assault D3). The fething MELTA has longer range than the heavy stubber. Wtf are these point costs? The Stubber even gets the -1 BS when moving because it doesn't have the superheavy walker rule. It is just a superheavy. A superheavy dreadnought.

 Quickjager wrote:
I have to say their ranged weapons are incredibly overpriced.

It costs 13 points to go from a HEAVY STUBBER (Heavy 3) to a Melta (Assault D3). The fething MELTA has longer range than the heavy stubber. Wtf are these point costs? The Stubber even gets the -1 BS when moving because it doesn't have the superheavy walker rule. It is just a superheavy. A superheavy dreadnought.

Um, what? The Stubber gets replaced with a Meltagun - not a Thermal Spear - so 12" Assault 1.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I actually like the toned down stats.

Makes the Chaos daemon engines more appealing since they too come with 12 wounds, 5+ invul, and seeing these things spammed everywhere wont be too much of a Game changer.

If you wanted bigger, badder, you're gonna have to pay more. (in both points and currency)

The chaos demon engines gak all over this thing. A hellforged Leviathan/Contemptor with butcher cannons is an actual threat, whereas this thing can pretty much be safely ignored the whole game as it fires it's whopping average of two shots per turn before anemically swinging it's four close combat attacks into the bubble wrap unit that tarpitted it the second it got within charge distance of anything good.

Two of these have less firepower than a Knight, less overall durability AND can be tarpitted by cultists for an entire game. Hell, two of these buys you three Manticores or FOUR Basilisks.

This thing isnt even suited for casual it's so bad. Like, I get that it's probably better to undertune than overtune, but this thing doesn't even become useable as a distraction Carnifex until sub 200 points. At least now I know I can safely split the box to get the Necron half without worrying if I'm missing out.

Yep, going to get a box of forgebane just to be able to run Knights at 1000 points, then once you hit 1500-2000 forget about armigers completely.

Yeah this goes past cautious and straight into just plain bad territory. Unless it's got some sort of crazy good rule or something fun like access to forgeworld traits/canticles for free (it doesn't) it's not worth anywhere near that cost. An onager is just as tough for like 80 pts less with an actual anti tank weapon, the neutron laser. And that thing even has better antihorde since you get two heavy stubbers, better saves, and access to forgeworld traits.

If it at least filled some sort of role admech lacked that'd be something but the last thing admech needed was another AT weapon, much less the most consistently overpriced special weapon in the game. Even worse, when even GW knows it has a weakness to horde's that's the last thing you need as an admech player. This thing desperately needed some sort of Gatling cannon or plasma loadout, and either a fist or some sort of anti horde melee weapon. The speed is nice, that's something admech needs, but it just can't do anything worthwhile with it. Especially since there are dreads half it's size with better stats and costs.

Well on the bright side I won't have to spend the money I planned to on these things!

They will have access to Admech Strats though won't they? That means access to 4++, non-degrading profiles, 2+ save on the first turn, etc.

That doesn't make them good of course, and they'll no doubt end up in the same bin as Redemptors. But worth considering?

grouchoben wrote:
They will have access to Admech Strats though won't they? That means access to 4++, non-degrading profiles, 2+ save on the first turn, etc.

That doesn't make them good of course, and they'll no doubt end up in the same bin as Redemptors. But worth considering?

If they're like big knights you can only give one unit canticles per turn and it specifically doesn't allow the 2+ armor save one for them. And unless they truly make you keep these as a squad, most squadrons cease being a single unit after deployment, so only one would get access per turn.

And unless I'm wrong, Canticles only apply if every unit in the Detachment has it, yeah?

In which case you'd have to take a single Armiger in a Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment.

RogueApiary wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I actually like the toned down stats.

Makes the Chaos daemon engines more appealing since they too come with 12 wounds, 5+ invul, and seeing these things spammed everywhere wont be too much of a Game changer.

If you wanted bigger, badder, you're gonna have to pay more. (in both points and currency)

The chaos demon engines gak all over this thing. A hellforged Leviathan/Contemptor with butcher cannons is an actual threat, whereas this thing can pretty much be safely ignored the whole game as it fires it's whopping average of two shots per turn before anemically swinging it's four close combat attacks into the bubble wrap unit that tarpitted it the second it got within charge distance of anything good.

Two of these have less firepower than a Knight, less overall durability AND can be tarpitted by cultists for an entire game. Hell, two of these buys you three Manticores or FOUR Basilisks.

This thing isnt even suited for casual it's so bad. Like, I get that it's probably better to undertune than overtune, but this thing doesn't even become useable as a distraction Carnifex until sub 200 points. At least now I know I can safely split the box to get the Necron half without worrying if I'm missing out.

OK.... Those FW dreads weren't made with strategems and legion traits in mind.

And by Daemon Engines, I mean the actual daemon engines. Mauler fiends Heldrakes, Forge friends, even the Defiler. All considered overpriced and underwhelming by most standards. Seeing an Imperial unit that isn't considered OP makes me very surprised and happy.

Plus these things are lol distractions from the Big Giant Knight. You're supposed to spam them and take some heat off the big ones and create threat saturation. Did anyone really expect a single baby Knight to solo armies? These things are cheap and will be spammed in every Knight army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When you see two of these and a larger Knight, money says you're shooting the big Knight first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, my point is: this is a list I woundnt groan at seeing g on the table top.

Triple baneblade, triple Obelisk. Those games are no fun to me. But A Knight and it's two little doggies? Yea, I'd play that.

I just wish they'd given it a little stomp. Maybe 2x attacks at base strength, AP -1, D1. Just something to help it deal with hordes.

 Lance845 wrote:
I dunno. Having multiple fast smaller knights running about is kind of what knights need. They themselves already have a lot of viable weapon loadouts. Having smaller guys that dont cost nearly as much but stick with the knight theme is pretty nice.

Not really, one thing knights are lacking is a solid anti horde option. Pretty much every weapon they have is geared towards dealing with multiwound infantry or tanks. Which can be solved with admech help (some rangers and vanguard do a lot to cover the weaknesses of the knights) but is not particularly helped by these new critters. The fact these are even worse against hordes due to lack of stomps and an easy time tarpitting themas the can't stride over units like the normal knights can means these pretty much run with every issue the knights currently have and crank it up a notch.

Honestly, even admech dragoons do a far better job of supporting the knights in the same style. These just don't work well at all.

It sounds bad. Another new release I've got no interest whatsoever in. I'll stick to my Onagers and Sydonian Dragoons. Seems like a release mainly aimed at pure IK armies.

It's a cool model, but I have to agree...even on the casual front this current Armiger looks really poor as a choice outside of a decent combined arms force. I personally don't see Knights having lacked in dealing out wounds to tanks, etc.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:

RogueApiary wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I actually like the toned down stats.

Makes the Chaos daemon engines more appealing since they too come with 12 wounds, 5+ invul, and seeing these things spammed everywhere wont be too much of a Game changer.

If you wanted bigger, badder, you're gonna have to pay more. (in both points and currency)

The chaos demon engines gak all over this thing. A hellforged Leviathan/Contemptor with butcher cannons is an actual threat, whereas this thing can pretty much be safely ignored the whole game as it fires it's whopping average of two shots per turn before anemically swinging it's four close combat attacks into the bubble wrap unit that tarpitted it the second it got within charge distance of anything good.

Two of these have less firepower than a Knight, less overall durability AND can be tarpitted by cultists for an entire game. Hell, two of these buys you three Manticores or FOUR Basilisks.

This thing isnt even suited for casual it's so bad. Like, I get that it's probably better to undertune than overtune, but this thing doesn't even become useable as a distraction Carnifex until sub 200 points. At least now I know I can safely split the box to get the Necron half without worrying if I'm missing out.

OK.... Those FW dreads weren't made with strategems and legion traits in mind.

And by Daemon Engines, I mean the actual daemon engines. Mauler fiends Heldrakes, Forge friends, even the Defiler. All considered overpriced and underwhelming by most standards. Seeing an Imperial unit that isn't considered OP makes me very surprised and happy.

Plus these things are lol distractions from the Big Giant Knight. You're supposed to spam them and take some heat off the big ones and create threat saturation. Did anyone really expect a single baby Knight to solo armies? These things are cheap and will be spammed in every Knight army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
When you see two of these and a larger Knight, money says you're shooting the big Knight first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway, my point is: this is a list I woundnt groan at seeing g on the table top.

Triple baneblade, triple Obelisk. Those games are no fun to me. But A Knight and it's two little doggies? Yea, I'd play that.

They need to be a threat to be a distraction. They aren't a threat, so you shoot the big knight first and then just charge the baby knights with chaff until the game ends. Knight-based armies were already terrible, taking these along manages to make them even worse. While you wouldn't groan to see this across from you, I certainly would. It's pretty much a turn 1 concede from your opponent if they brought more than one.

227 sounds ok. Looks like an upgraded contemptor dread, faster, more melta range, more wounds. Whats the armiger BS/WS ?

Sounds like we need some sort of fear meachinc or something for these large, low attack units
.
Personally I wouldn't be charging these things lol

 p5freak wrote:
227 sounds ok. Looks like an upgraded contemptor dread, faster, more melta range, more wounds. Whats the armiger BS/WS ?

3+ degrading to 5+.

I wonder if they'll ever be a chaos version?

 docdoom77 wrote:
I just wish they'd given it a little stomp. Maybe 2x attacks at base strength, AP -1, D1. Just something to help it deal with hordes.

Yea that would be cool. It's so damn fast and could do so much, but gets mired in junk. They priced that gun - as good as it is - way too highly.

Though I still think 3 of these things hitting on area of your opponents line will be really daunting. They'll get through eventually and get strong melta shots in at half range over the screens pretty easily.

 EagleArk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
227 sounds ok. Looks like an upgraded contemptor dread, faster, more melta range, more wounds. Whats the armiger BS/WS ?

3+ degrading to 5+.

Thats not good. Contemptor dread has 2+. For 2 armiger you can almost get 3 contemptor dreads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Though I still think 3 of these things hitting on area of your opponents line will be really daunting. They'll get through eventually and get strong melta shots in at half range over the screens pretty easily.

They will never get within 15" of any viable targets, cheap screens will tie them up in melee, maybe even surround them. With only 4 base attacks and no stomps they will be neutralized.

 p5freak wrote:

 EagleArk wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
227 sounds ok. Looks like an upgraded contemptor dread, faster, more melta range, more wounds. Whats the armiger BS/WS ?

3+ degrading to 5+.

Thats not good. Contemptor dread has 2+. For 2 armiger you can almost get 3 contemptor dreads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Though I still think 3 of these things hitting on area of your opponents line will be really daunting. They'll get through eventually and get strong melta shots in at half range over the screens pretty easily.

They will never get within 15" of any viable targets, cheap screens will tie them up in melee, maybe even surround them. With only 4 base attacks and no stomps they will be neutralized.

assuming the sarmganger doesn't have cheap screens of it's own, remember they have the Imperium keyword. why are we assuming somehow that they'll be deployed alone? 2 of them and a knight warden is only 1000 points, in a 2000 point game that means 1000 points that can be thrown into guard, space marine scouts or whatever other screens you wanna use.