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Quick complicated question (or not), a friend and I played yesterday and we used "for the greater good" when I was charged. Now it all went ok but it was a bit odd. We found rules as written that I (the Tau Player) possibly have to declare all the units firing overwatch before resolving (Not a problem so far), but it got weird when we resolved the shots as according to the rulebook as it was my friend's turn he could choose the order I resolved my shots in and he would therefore (because why wouldn't you) get my units to fire that weren't being charged first so they are unable to fire overwatch again. My query is that both my friend and I had thought we had seen some where that if the conflicting rules belong to a single player that they decide the order of resolution, but we can't find it anywhere? Is the way we did it correct? The rule is very cool and I'm happy it just means I need to be more tactical if we were correct.

For completeness here is the only rule I can find on sequencing direct from the rulebook:

Sequencing
While playing Warhammer
40,000, you’ll occasionally
find that two or more rules
are to be resolved at the
same time – normally ‘at
the start of the Movement
phase’ or ‘before the battle
begins’. When this happens
during the game, the player
whose turn it is chooses the
order. If these things occur
before or after the game,
or at the start or end of a
battle round, the players
roll off and the winner
decides in what order the
rules are resolved.

"While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time [...] When this happens during the game, the player whose turn it is chooses the order."

"Each time a charge is declared against a unit, the target unit can immediately fire Overwatch at the would-be attacker."

So yes, the player who is charging gets to decide the order overwatch is resolved.

The whole rule for overwatch states:

"Overwatch is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy's Charge phase) and uses all the normal rules except..."

This reads as a modified shooting phase for the target (FGG) and order is determined by the target of the charge.

I can't seem to find it but remember somewhere stating this is the case (may be me remembering old rules clarifications)

All the units have to declare if they are overwatching.

The shooting then happens simultaneously. So it doesn’t matter which units cause the death of the charging unit - they’ve all fired overwatch.

I think this is a mis-application of sequencing, personally, and expect to see it clarified as such in the FAQ. To me, sequencing steps in if two conflicting actions happen (ie actions from both players), not to let your opponent choose how your units shoot. Seems grossly unintended and stupid, so expecting to see it clarified that the Overwatcher gets to choose the order. That’s HIWPI. But if they shoot, they’ve shot. Nothing changes that bit.

clively wrote:
All the units have to declare if they are overwatching.

The shooting then happens simultaneously. So it doesn’t matter which units cause the death of the charging unit - they’ve all fired overwatch.

Isn't this the gist of it, they all shoot, and have spent their overwatch. Doesn't matter which unit lands the final blow, if any.

[error]

torblind wrote:

clively wrote:
All the units have to declare if they are overwatching.

The shooting then happens simultaneously. So it doesn’t matter which units cause the death of the charging unit - they’ve all fired overwatch.

Isn't this the gist of it, they all shoot, and have spent their overwatch. Doesn't matter which unit lands the final blow, if any.

It does for tau, since some units can fire markerlights and buff the rest of the shooting sequence.

I'm not seeing the reason why the charging player would get to chose the order though; this isnt the case of two rules resolving at the same time, its one rule that applies to multiple models and units. If there was a rule that say alowed another unit of his to move when an overwatch is fired, then there would be a conflict and he would have the choice of order of operations.

 davou wrote:

torblind wrote:

clively wrote:
All the units have to declare if they are overwatching.

The shooting then happens simultaneously. So it doesn’t matter which units cause the death of the charging unit - they’ve all fired overwatch.

Isn't this the gist of it, they all shoot, and have spent their overwatch. Doesn't matter which unit lands the final blow, if any.

It does for tau, since some units can fire markerlights and buff the rest of the shooting sequence.

I'm not seeing the reason why the charging player would get to chose the order though; this isnt the case of two rules resolving at the same time, its one rule that applies to multiple models and units. If there was a rule that say alowed another unit of his to move when an overwatch is fired, then there would be a conflict and he would have the choice of order of operations.

Because all the shooting is declared at the same time any markerlight hits wouldn't have any effect on the current attacks. The markerlight hits have to be on the unit before an attack is declared for that attack to get bonuses from the markerlights

That's not true. In the FAQ for the index they said a unit of Pathfinders could benefit from their own markerlights by firing them one at a time.

 FirePainter wrote:
That's not true. In the FAQ for the index they said a unit of Pathfinders could benefit from their own markerlights by firing them one at a time.

Well, that FAQ doesn't apply now since this is a new codex. Odds are they'll FAQ it to work the same way, but best not to assume that it does until it's FAQ'd - check with your opponents first to make sure they're okay with it. Most should be cool about it.

I'd say the bigger problem here isn't the order in witch you execute Overwatch, it's that you think a unit can only Overwatch once per turn.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'd say the bigger problem here isn't the order in witch you execute Overwatch, it's that you think a unit can only Overwatch once per turn.

For the Greater Good explicitly says "A unit that does so cannot fire Overwatch again in this turn." with "does so" referring to firing as though they were also charged.

 doctortom wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
That's not true. In the FAQ for the index they said a unit of Pathfinders could benefit from their own markerlights by firing them one at a time.

Well, that FAQ doesn't apply now since this is a new codex. Odds are they'll FAQ it to work the same way, but best not to assume that it does until it's FAQ'd - check with your opponents first to make sure they're okay with it. Most should be cool about it.

Certainly precedent is not something the faq has respected in the past, but in the absence of anything else, it's all we have. They've established that shooting that happens 'simultaneously' does, in fact, have an order of operations (even when there's just one squad shooting).

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:
I'd say the bigger problem here isn't the order in witch you execute Overwatch, it's that you think a unit can only Overwatch once per turn.

For the Greater Good explicitly says "A unit that does so cannot fire Overwatch again in this turn." with "does so" referring to firing as though they were also charged.

Ah, good to know.

 doctortom wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
That's not true. In the FAQ for the index they said a unit of Pathfinders could benefit from their own markerlights by firing them one at a time.

Well, that FAQ doesn't apply now since this is a new codex. Odds are they'll FAQ it to work the same way, but best not to assume that it does until it's FAQ'd - check with your opponents first to make sure they're okay with it. Most should be cool about it.

It will still apply, same as the Index Xenos 2 guidance re: large models like Hive Tyrants dying and getting a final attack via Ability/Stratagem using their 1W profile is still valid.

It’s also the Core Rules. You make shots one at a time. So if you use Markerlights first remaining shots get the benefit. That’s just the basic rules of the game, the FAQ just reinforces the RAW.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 doctortom wrote:

 FirePainter wrote:
That's not true. In the FAQ for the index they said a unit of Pathfinders could benefit from their own markerlights by firing them one at a time.

Well, that FAQ doesn't apply now since this is a new codex. Odds are they'll FAQ it to work the same way, but best not to assume that it does until it's FAQ'd - check with your opponents first to make sure they're okay with it. Most should be cool about it.

It will still apply, same as the Index Xenos 2 guidance re: large models like Hive Tyrants dying and getting a final attack via Ability/Stratagem using their 1W profile is still valid.

It’s also the Core Rules. You make shots one at a time. So if you use Markerlights first remaining shots get the benefit. That’s just the basic rules of the game, the FAQ just reinforces the RAW.

Fair enough, but it won't hurt to reinforce it when they put out a FAQ for the new codex.