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Very surprised to see the lack of discussion about the new Tau dex. It's out, people are playing with it, but dakka seems quite silent. Heck, I even see a lack of threats even griping about how good or bad they are. Any explanations for this seeming whisper of a codex release?

 buddha wrote:
Very surprised to see the lack of discussion about the new Tau dex. It's out, people are playing with it, but dakka seems quite silent. Heck, I even see a lack of threats even griping about how good or bad they are. Any explanations for this seeming whisper of a codex release?

People are having a hard time finding big problems with it, I guess? Maybe the base is a little more sane now that Gamgee is banned? Your guess is as good as mine!

There's a vocal contingent of the Tau community who think we got Grey Knighted with our dex. Not as many of those people on Dakka thankfully, but go check Facebook or Reddit and you can't miss them.

The dex buffed a few units to where they’re not bad (riptides and broadsides don’t auto lose you the game anymore) but with drones and commanders nerfed, it feels like we’re not too great most of the small suits still are too expensive. We need a buff to crisis suits and stealth suits, and kroot are 1 point too much. Right now, it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

I still go through a lot of the units and wargear we have and go “why would you ever spend that much?”

I guess the book helped, but more would of been nice. It wasn’t the grey knight treatment though.. I have 6k of grey Knights, so I know.

 Jaxler wrote:
it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

You should stop that

there is almost noting as good as guard or dark reapers.



how do you feel about the dex if we avoid the big problem children like morty horntits girlyman dark reapers and the guard dex?

 meleti wrote:
There's a vocal contingent of the Tau community who think we got Grey Knighted with our dex. Not as many of those people on Dakka thankfully, but go check Facebook or Reddit and you can't miss them.

Yea it's weird, because locally most people are freaking out how powerful they are.

Eh, most negativity I've seen is that players are salty that Tau didn't get buffed back to 7th edition Riptide Wing levels... No, we're not god-tier, but I seriously do not see what people are all whining about. The only thing that really grinds my gears is that the Hammerhead rail cannon didn't get a buff. I really expected that to get the "Grinding Advance" treatment but alas. I'm quite happy with the rest though (yes, even Crisis suits and restricted Commanders).

 Desubot wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

You should stop that

there is almost noting as good as guard or dark reapers.



how do you feel about the dex if we avoid the big problem children like morty horntits girlyman dark reapers and the guard dex?

It feels like they only fixed 1/2 the units that needed it.

Pandabeer wrote:
Eh, most negativity I've seen is that players are salty that Tau didn't get buffed back to 7th edition Riptide Wing levels... No, we're not god-tier, but I seriously do not see what people are all whining about. The only thing that really grinds my gears is that the Hammerhead rail cannon didn't get a buff. I really expected that to get the "Grinding Advance" treatment but alas. I'm quite happy with the rest though (yes, even Crisis suits and restricted Commanders).

The Ion Cannon did get a buff. Ion Cannon is quite nice now.

 Jaxler wrote:
The dex buffed a few units to where they’re not bad (riptides and broadsides don’t auto lose you the game anymore) but with drones and commanders nerfed, it feels like we’re not too great most of the small suits still are too expensive. We need a buff to crisis suits and stealth suits, and kroot are 1 point too much. Right now, it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

I still go through a lot of the units and wargear we have and go “why would you ever spend that much?”

I guess the book helped, but more would of been nice. It wasn’t the grey knight treatment though.. I have 6k of grey Knights, so I know.

5ppm Kroot are a point too much? Whaaaaat? Stealth Suits need a price drop... whaaaaat?

The only units in the Codex that are "bad" are Crisis suits and only in the context of spamming them as the core of an army. Has a small surgical unit they can do work (But yeah at the same time with that you better just use commanders). Skyrays are not great either and Hammerheads are in the slighly below average scale with Rail Cannon (But Ion Cannon Hammerheads are actually usable and OK). And Piranhas compete with Devilfish being much worse for not that big of a difference in price, they need to be made cheaper.
I don't know about stormsurge, or the Krootox but nearly everything else has its uses and it can do work.

 Jaxler wrote:
The dex buffed a few units to where they’re not bad (riptides and broadsides don’t auto lose you the game anymore) but with drones and commanders nerfed, it feels like we’re not too great most of the small suits still are too expensive. We need a buff to crisis suits and stealth suits, and kroot are 1 point too much. Right now, it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

I still go through a lot of the units and wargear we have and go “why would you ever spend that much?”

I guess the book helped, but more would of been nice. It wasn’t the grey knight treatment though.. I have 6k of grey Knights, so I know.

The Stealth Suit is a fantastic board control & presence unit.

 Galas wrote:

 Jaxler wrote:
The dex buffed a few units to where they’re not bad (riptides and broadsides don’t auto lose you the game anymore) but with drones and commanders nerfed, it feels like we’re not too great most of the small suits still are too expensive. We need a buff to crisis suits and stealth suits, and kroot are 1 point too much. Right now, it still feels like we’re lacking in a lot of ways when compared to things like guard.

I still go through a lot of the units and wargear we have and go “why would you ever spend that much?”

I guess the book helped, but more would of been nice. It wasn’t the grey knight treatment though.. I have 6k of grey Knights, so I know.

5ppm Kroot are a point too much? Whaaaaat? Stealth Suits need a price drop... whaaaaat?

The only units in the Codex that are "bad" are Crisis suits and only in the context of spamming them as the core of an army. Has a small surgical unit they can do work (But yeah at the same time with that you better just use commanders). Skyrays are not great either and Hammerheads are in the slighly below average scale with Rail Cannon (But Ion Cannon Hammerheads are actually usable and OK). And Piranhas compete with Devilfish being much worse for not that big of a difference in price, they need to be made cheaper.
I don't know about stormsurge, or the Krootox but nearly everything else has its uses and it can do work.

Stormsurge feels a bit... schizophrenic to me. A TON of S5 shots and then the big S10+ multi-damage cannon. I'd rather have seen you could specialize it further (like for example to replace the big cannon with a giant burst cannon or replace the Cluster Rocket System with multi-shot long-range Fusion Blasters).

Overall, a really good dex. A bit like tyrannids, not too OP, but almost everything seems viable. The only things I can't see people taking are railgun hammerheads, (which is a shame given how iconic they are, but there is the ion cannon), skyrays, as whilst they're better, they still can't compete with other heavy support options, piranhas seem a little too expensive for what you're getting, and crisis suits are still also a little too expensive.
In addition to most things being viable, strike teams and kroot seem really good now, and cheap infantry, especially screening infantry, is the way to go in 8th, so no issues there (also I'd say kroot are probably better than the IS, if it weren't for orders and access to regimental doctrines). Some useless strategems, but some great ones. Kind of sad they didn't reverse the markerlights to the 7th system, but not really an issue. A few quite nasty signature systems, puretide chip seems like an auto include, although some are pretty worthless, but you'd only take one anyway.
Sa'cea is dead, long live Bor'kan. In all seriousness only sa'cea is bad, day'lyth and farsight are a bit meh, but bor'kan, ta'u and vior'la all seem quite good, most of the warlord traits are decent or good.
All in all a good dex.

What happened to gamgee, was he actually banned?

The stormsurge is ina wierd place as non of the battlesuit strats work on it as its not a battlesuits. I think the railguns issue is its paying too much for its sub munition profile. Like 13 points for a profile options I can't say I'd think yeah thats what I want to shoot.

P.S. i take back what I said about vespid not being viable I read Ld 5 and was like nope. But strain leader is 8 so actually much better.

Ice_can wrote:
The stormsurge is ina wierd place as non of the battlesuit strats work on it as its not a battlesuits.

I think it is good enough on its own to justify taking it, and the only battlesuit stratagems that would really be worth using is the one that allows it to use the top statline, which would probably be a bit unfair, and the regain d3 wounds, which isn't so huge on a W20 model.

The Railgun hammerhead makes me a sad panda, thats an iconic unit that needed a major fix and didnt get it, and its been neglected for far too long over too many editions :(

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Railgun hammerhead makes me a sad panda, thats an iconic unit that needed a major fix and didnt get it, and its been neglected for far too long over too many editions :(

It was such an easy fix too - just give it 2d6 damage.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
In all seriousness only sa'cea is bad,

I think Sa'cea is actually pretty great. Sa'cea Firesight Marksmen are super cheap Characters with 3+ rerollable Markerlights, it's probably the best way to get Markerlights in the entire codex.

Unrelated note: 4ppm Kroot would rule the world, so it's a good thing they're not that cheap. lol

Im not so sure the rail hammerhead is THAT bad. It has the 2 shooting options for different targets, has good ap, and the chance for decent mortal wounds.

Maybe im missing something. Whats the actual issue with the rail gun?

 Lance845 wrote:
Im not so sure the rail hammerhead is THAT bad. It has the 2 shooting options for different targets, has good ap, and the chance for decent mortal wounds.

Maybe im missing something. Whats the actual issue with the rail gun?

It's bad. Catastrophically bad. It's only 55% as efficient as an Ionhead against T7 targets, and unless you have the Burst Cannons firing on the same tank as your Railgun (hah), it's literally twice the PPW as a Railside. And you might say to yourself, hey, I bet it's much better against T8 targets! But it's not, it's still worse than either an Ionhead or Railside. gak, even a HYMP Broadside without an ATS is a better shooter against T8 vehicles, and that's just sad.

I enjoyed playing the Stormsurge this weekend. Having ATS, Shield Generator and Stim Injector made it play well.

Having the repair Stratagem put me up from 10 wounds to 12 which made it better than burning the other Stratagem to give it top line stats.

It went up against an Ork Stompa. The Bor'Kan Sept helped on one shot, but not on the second turn when I was beyond 16" from a Fallback. The x4 Destroyer Missiles did very well against the Marked giant!

It is an extensive single shot weapon, its problems are similar to that of the anti-tank russ.

Compare the Railhead to the Fire Prism, which is basically the same tank except it can shoot its gun twice. Also Fire Prisms are not even good.

 Da-Rock wrote:
I enjoyed playing the Stormsurge this weekend. Having ATS, Shield Generator and Stim Injector made it play well.

Having the repair Stratagem put me up from 10 wounds to 12 which made it better than burning the other Stratagem to give it top line stats.

It went up against an Ork Stompa. The Bor'Kan Sept helped on one shot, but not on the second turn when I was beyond 16" from a Fallback. The x4 Destroyer Missiles did very well against the Marked giant!

Seriously does no-one check keywords on stratageums. The stim injector strat can't be used on a stormsurge.

The Railhead has much the same issue the Vanquisher does, mildly mitigated by a secondary fire mode, but ultimately its got a one shot gun that just isn't actually very effective at its role given the low rate of fire coupled with the overall cost of the platform.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The Railhead has much the same issue the Vanquisher does, mildly mitigated by a secondary fire mode, but ultimately its got a one shot gun that just isn't actually very effective at its role given the low rate of fire coupled with the overall cost of the platform.

The secondary fire mode is just smoke and mirrors, it's not actually going to outperform the cheaper Ion Cannon very often, against any common target profile.

Ice_can wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
I enjoyed playing the Stormsurge this weekend. Having ATS, Shield Generator and Stim Injector made it play well.

Having the repair Stratagem put me up from 10 wounds to 12 which made it better than burning the other Stratagem to give it top line stats.

It went up against an Ork Stompa. The Bor'Kan Sept helped on one shot, but not on the second turn when I was beyond 16" from a Fallback. The x4 Destroyer Missiles did very well against the Marked giant!

Seriously does no-one check keywords on stratageums. The stim injector strat can't be used on a stormsurge.

LOL! Does anyone read FAQs.....I used the gear from the Index for it.

 meleti wrote:

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
In all seriousness only sa'cea is bad,

I think Sa'cea is actually pretty great. Sa'cea Firesight Marksmen are super cheap Characters with 3+ rerollable Markerlights, it's probably the best way to get Markerlights in the entire codex.

Add one to leadership is flat out useless, especially given bonding knives and ethereals.
Yes, for models with a single markerlight, it gives the reroll, although on a cadre fireblade, it's likely you'll hit anyway and there's a variety of ways of rerolling ones. The other useful thing would be for seeker missiles and railheads, but one reroll on many of the units just isn't as significant as say, 5+ overwatch or an extra 6" range to rapid fire and heavy.
The stratagem is alright, but it's 2cp and only the one markerlight, and you should be bringing a ton anyway through fireblades and pathfinders and potentially just marksmen, although they're taking up elite slots. The uplinked markerlight is probably better.
Warlord trait is garbage.

 Lance845 wrote:
Im not so sure the rail hammerhead is THAT bad. It has the 2 shooting options for different targets, has good ap, and the chance for decent mortal wounds.

Maybe im missing something. Whats the actual issue with the rail gun?

The problem is that it can only ever do D6 damage on any one turn, and most of its "prime" targets have 12+ wounds. And half the time it won't even wound at all. So, on average it won't even kill a single tank over 6 turns. I had a game where it only did 2 damage over 6 turns.

The submunitions shot is ok as an option, but no one takes the railgun for that. It'll only score a couple S6 hits. I can easily do that with a 2 plasma rifle suit and get more AP for fewer points. Or just take strike teams instead.

 Da-Rock wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Da-Rock wrote:
I enjoyed playing the Stormsurge this weekend. Having ATS, Shield Generator and Stim Injector made it play well.

Having the repair Stratagem put me up from 10 wounds to 12 which made it better than burning the other Stratagem to give it top line stats.

It went up against an Ork Stompa. The Bor'Kan Sept helped on one shot, but not on the second turn when I was beyond 16" from a Fallback. The x4 Destroyer Missiles did very well against the Marked giant!

Seriously does no-one check keywords on stratageums. The stim injector strat can't be used on a stormsurge.

LOL! Does anyone read FAQs.....I used the gear from the Index for it.

FYI, it's not clear that this is allowed -- the stim injector does not actually appear as an option "in the index version of its datasheet". The question here is whether index datasheets that refer to lists still refer to the index versions of those lists.