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I'm toying with the idea of spending some birthday money and starting an Imperial Fists force, and I'm hoping for some community opinions. For my Raven Guard I've decided to totally skip Primaris units, but for this army I'm thinking of a mix of unit types. I don't plan to play in any tournaments or anything, just trying to make a vaguely fluffy army that should work well with itself. The basic idea here is to use the Intercessors to camp objectives, the scouts to push out one flank to protect from deep strikers, and the Sternguard to act as an anchor on another flank, deterring enemy charges through volume of fire. Meanwhile, the 4 predators (hopefully) get off a killshot against whatever big nasties the enemy has brought, and the Hellblasters hunker down in cover. Vindicator acts as a distraction carnifex, as its the only T8 in the list. The techmarine and one lieutenant deploy with the tanks, ancient, captain, and other lieutenant with Hellblasters.

What do you all think of this? I haven't purchased anything for this project yet (I already have the minis in mind for the sternguard, captain, and Vindicator, though), so I'm very open to suggestions on how I might make this work better. I think I'm good on anti-tank, though I wonder if I have enough horde-clearing potential.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [45 PL, 646pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 88pts]: Power fist, Storm bolter

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 74pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Power sword

+ Elites +

Primaris Ancient [5 PL, 69pts]: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 180pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm bolter
. Veteran Sergeant: Chainsword, Storm bolter

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Scout Squad [6 PL, 55pts]
. Scout Sergeant: Astartes shotgun, Chainsword
. 4x Scout w/Shotgun

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [40 PL, 816pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

+ HQ +

Techmarine [4 PL, 64pts]: Power axe, Servo-arm, Storm bolter

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [28 PL, 538pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ Heavy Support +

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

Hellblaster Squad [8 PL, 165pts]: Plasma incinerator
. 4x Hellblaster
. Hellblaster Sergeant: Bolt pistol

Vindicator [7 PL, 133pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter

+ HQ +

Primaris Lieutenants [5 PL, 75pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle

++ Total: [113 PL, 2000pts] ++

First thing I'd do is replace that techmarine with Sgt. Chronos, put him in one of those predators.

I'd also ditch the vindicator and the Primaris Leutenant from your spearhead, and get rid of that scout squad, roll the hellblasters into the battallion.

I'd also maybe double up on the sternguard vets, more dakka. You should probably stick with the default special issue boltguns on them.

If you are looking for a cheaper alternative to sternguard, you can take fallen, which are 14 points a piece.

If you are going to take sternguards, then I would suggest that you either give them weapons with AP values, or just swap them for a devastator squad. 10 stormbolters won't do as much damage as you hope. Their regular special issue guns are far better than stormbolters as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Scratch that... Find 20 points somewhere and replace the sternguard with a Redemptor Dreadnought. That this is very efficient at thinning out hordes.

Dwro1234 wrote:
Scratch that... Find 20 points somewhere and replace the sternguard with a Redemptor Dreadnought. That this is very efficient at thinning out hordes.

I don't think thats really in keeping with the theme of his list.

Thanks for the advice so far everyone. Regarding Chronus, since he's an Ultramarine that won't really work in this list.

As for the Sternguard, I've been oscillating between storm bolters and special issue bolters. I was thinking that the volume of shots would outweigh the AP and extra range, but I'm not sure. I'll think about that, and see if there's any guidance in the tactics thread. I seem to recall a lot of people recommending mass storm bolters, but going with their standard weapons would be a lot easier from a modeling perspective! I had been thinking of taking two units, I'll consider that too.

I'm not really interested in a Redemptor (don't care for the model), and as rril mentions I think that the Sternguard fit the Imperial Fist fluff more. I'd considered adding a Venerable dread though, maybe instead of the Vindicator.

you should probably replace the scout squad with intercessors, maybe ditch the ancient and take 4 squads of x5 intercessors, then group them in squads of 10. That ought to give you more dakka. All your troops are foot slogging it, as well, that might be a problem if you need to move them across the board.

I'd definitely been thinking of skipping scouts, though I worry a bit about deep strike threats. I suppose I can screen with Intercessors though, I have less of a bubble but they're fairly durable. I think I still need 3 squads though, for the sake of CP. I imagine I'll use Killshot at least once (more if 3 predators survive to turn 2), 3 CP for a chapter master, and the sternguard strat (if I switch to special bolters). Plus potentially auspex scan, rerolls, etc etc.

I worked up a list based around our suggestions. I skimmed 1 soldier off the hellblaster and sternguard squads

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [116 PL, 2000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [80 PL, 1277pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport [8 PL, 160pts] +

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], 2x Storm bolter [4pts]

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], 2x Storm bolter [4pts]

+ Heavy Support [16 PL, 297pts] +

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 297pts]: Plasma incinerator [135pts]
. . 8x Hellblaster [144pts]
. . Hellblaster Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol

+ HQ [13 PL, 223pts] +

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power fist [12pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 67pts]
. . Lieutenant [4 PL, 67pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power sword [4pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 67pts]
. . Lieutenant [4 PL, 67pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power sword [4pts]

+ Elites [28 PL, 324pts] +

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 162pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Veteran Sergeant [18pts]: Chainsword, Storm bolter [2pts]

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 162pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Veteran Sergeant [18pts]: Chainsword, Storm bolter [2pts]

+ Troops [15 PL, 273pts] +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [36 PL, 723pts] ++

+ Heavy Support [25 PL, 497pts] +

Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

+ HQ [11 PL, 226pts] +

Sergeant Chronus [11 PL, 226pts]
. . Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Created with BattleScribe

I like the list but think the Vindicator would be a little outclassed by the rest of the firepower. A third Predator gives you access to Killshot, and that's likely going to be more valuable.

 techsoldaten wrote:
I like the list but think the Vindicator would be a little outclassed by the rest of the firepower. A third Predator gives you access to Killshot, and that's likely going to be more valuable.

You already have a 3rd predator, aka chronos

Interesting list, I'll have to consider that. However, unless I am missing something, Chronus is an Ultramarine rather than an Imperial Fist, so I can't take him in the same detachment without losing chapter tactics.

rrll wrote:
I worked up a list based around our suggestions. I skimmed 1 soldier off the hellblaster and sternguard squads

+++ New Roster (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [116 PL, 2000pts] +++

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [80 PL, 1277pts] ++

+ Dedicated Transport [8 PL, 160pts] +

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], 2x Storm bolter [4pts]

Rhino [4 PL, 80pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], 2x Storm bolter [4pts]

+ Heavy Support [16 PL, 297pts] +

Hellblaster Squad [16 PL, 297pts]: Plasma incinerator [135pts]
. . 8x Hellblaster [144pts]
. . Hellblaster Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol

+ HQ [13 PL, 223pts] +

Captain [5 PL, 89pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power fist [12pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 67pts]
. . Lieutenant [4 PL, 67pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power sword [4pts]

Lieutenants [4 PL, 67pts]
. . Lieutenant [4 PL, 67pts]: Master-crafted boltgun [3pts], Power sword [4pts]

+ Elites [28 PL, 324pts] +

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 162pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Veteran Sergeant [18pts]: Chainsword, Storm bolter [2pts]

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 162pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Space Marine Veteran [18pts]: Storm bolter [2pts]
. . Veteran Sergeant [18pts]: Chainsword, Storm bolter [2pts]

+ Troops [15 PL, 273pts] +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 91pts]: Auxiliary Grenade Launcher [1pts], Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor [72pts], Intercessor Sergeant [18pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [36 PL, 723pts] ++

+ Heavy Support [25 PL, 497pts] +

Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Vindicator [7 PL, 125pts]

+ HQ [11 PL, 226pts] +

Sergeant Chronus [11 PL, 226pts]
. . Predator [9 PL, 186pts]: Hunter-killer missile [6pts], Predator autocannon [40pts], Two Lascannons [50pts]

Created with BattleScribe

IMPERIAL FISTS!

Imperial.........fists.

No chronos.

I've played a lot of games with the Imperial Fists and sadly the Vindicator isn't worth the points. I have 3 from the days of yore where a 10" blast template could remove terrain features and sadly they've only gone downhill since.

I echo what others have said regarding the Sternguard, unless you literally have 20 models already made up with Stormbolters, I would stick with the special issue bolters. Running the Fist and Sternguard stratagems together makes for a mean infantry mulcher especially with the extra range and AP.

Snipers are subpar. I would bring a vindicare if you have a job in mind for them.

The other suggestion I would make is to consider Dreadnoughts. Not a Redemptor, they don't have the range for my liking and they also have a degrading statline.

Instead consider Venerable Dakka Dreads. Hitting on 2's, no stat degradation like the Predators, a 6+ FNP, a smaller footprint so you can hide them in ruins and best of all, they benefit from the Chapter tactics of stripping cover. You have a choice of double Autocannon arms for infantry mulching or TwinLas/ML combo for AT.

As an Imperial Fist, you want to make the most of your tactic and make the enemy come to you. They're not getting cover anyway.

I have had real success with a gunline of 3/4 dakka dreads with a Captain and Lt. to back them up.

IMPERIAL FISTS!

Imperial.........fists.

No chronos.

Different detachments can take different chapter tactics.

rrll wrote:

IMPERIAL FISTS!

Imperial.........fists.

No chronos.

Different detachments can take different chapter tactics.

i think the OP wants to keep it as a pure Imperial fists detachment - offering ways to fit Chrono's into his list isn't what he is wanting to do.

ah, okay then.

I thought cronos was like pask, in that pask doesn't effect your regimental doctrine.

Yes he does (I believe), Pask is Cadian only from what i remember. If your opponent is happy with you using a proxy fair enough. but he has the cadian key word i believe so you have to use him in a cadian detachment otherwise you wont get the regimental stuff.

Pask is Cadian...
He must be in a Cadian detachment to be battle forged.

Only Tempestus, Advisors, and Auxilla are exempt from preventing others from gaining a regimental doctrine.

 EmpBobo wrote:
Pask is Cadian...
He must be in a Cadian detachment to be battle forged.

Only Tempestus, Advisors, and Auxilla are exempt from preventing others from gaining a regimental doctrine.

what he said

 Porphyrius wrote:
Thanks for the advice so far everyone. Regarding Chronus, since he's an Ultramarine that won't really work in this list.

As for the Sternguard, I've been oscillating between storm bolters and special issue bolters. I was thinking that the volume of shots would outweigh the AP and extra range, but I'm not sure.

Well, according to my mathhammer your better off with the stormbolters most of the time. The only time the -2 AP is better than twice the shots is if you're firing at 2+ Saves, at 3+ its a wash, 4+ and less it just goes more towards the Stormbolters. That doesn't factor in the range difference, and also with Special Issue guns you can use the strat that lets you get +1 to wound rolls for the squad. It is a difficult choice. Although if you wanted to use them to stop charges I'd recommend the Hvy Flamers on them as well, it's one of my favorite units with either type of gun really. Nice list.

Thanks again for all the tips everyone, very helpful. Taking all of that into account, how does this revised list look? I've incorporated some dreadnoughts, though I've also kept a good bit of the tanks. This is for a couple reasons: one, the Vindicator is one of the only models I actually have already for this list, and tanks in general don't really work for Raven Guard and as such I have a hankering to get some and paint them up! The Vindicator thread actually convinced me they could make a good distraction carnifex, too.

In the interest of points I've removed the Hellblasters, and added some dreads and a second unit of Sternguard. Basic idea is similar, deploy the Intercessors forward to camp objectives/screen, Sternguard behind them, and tanks and dreads near the rear in a gunline. Power fist captain(with Storm of Fire) and lieutenant deploy with tanks and dreads (in case anything too nasty gets to the gunline), techmarine also deploys with vehicles, and other captain buffs the sternguard. Use the sternguard strat, killshot, and potentially wisdom of the ancients depending on placement.

Does this make sense, even if it's not 100% optimal? Any obvious changes (models or tactics) I should be making? Do I have enough anti-tank and anti-infantry? I'm a bit concerned I may be too heavy on anti-tank, in which case I could change the dreads to riflemen to deal more with heavy infantry. Would the Primarch's Wrath be better on the other captain instead?


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [49 PL, 816pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 88pts]: Power fist, Storm bolter

+ Elites +

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 199pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Special issue boltgun

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 199pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgun
. Space Marine Veteran w/Heavy Weapon: Heavy flamer
. Veteran Sergeant: Power sword, Special issue boltgun

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

Venerable Dreadnought [8 PL, 165pts]: Missile launcher, Twin lascannon

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [39 PL, 778pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ Heavy Support +

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Predator [9 PL, 188pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Predator autocannon, Storm bolter, Two Lascannons

Vindicator [7 PL, 133pts]: Hunter-killer missile, Storm bolter

+ HQ +

Captain [5 PL, 81pts]: Master-crafted boltgun, Power sword, The Primarch's Wrath

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [23 PL, 406pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Imperial Fists

+ HQ +

Lieutenants [4 PL, 75pts]
. Lieutenant: Master-crafted boltgun, Power fist

Techmarine [4 PL, 61pts]: Boltgun, Power maul, Servo-arm

+ Troops +

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 90pts]: Bolt rifle, 4x Intercessor, Intercessor Sergeant

++ Total: [111 PL, 2000pts] ++

Love the look of that list, Porphyrius. Looks very fun to play. Would love to see it painted up and on the table!

Yep. I like the new list. Very fluffy.

I myself am also an Imperial Fist player (Crimson Fists) and kindly ask you to drop that Vindicator I really played some games with Vindis and they are not worth the points in this addition.

For fluff wise, maybe you can drop preds and vindi and add some assbacks and devastators. Especially devastators are really good for Imperial Fists with cover save denial and 2 2+ las shots with cerub in turn 1 is not sth you can reject. Assbacks can protect your sterns from heavy casualities if you go secand and 12 s6 ap-1 shots each are really good.

I will make some changes in your list and load it here after work

Cool, thanks for the advice. I have the models for the sternguard, 10 intercessors, captains, lieutenant, and Vindicator (using a Legion Medusa as counts-as) so far, and I’ll probably expand reasonably slowly from there. I’d like to be able to make the Vindicator work, but the consensus seems to be that it’s no good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I guess I could combat squad the sternguard to fit in assbacks, though if I do that I’m getting less mileage from the sternguard strat.

I know you said you have the Vindi in the list purely because its the only model you have or only one that's painted to fit the part.

I kindly ask that you get rid of it. Its just not that good in this edition. If you truly want a T8 distraction try an Ironclad dread. Nothing screams "shoot me!" Like a combat ironclad rushing something important to your opponent.