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Are broadsides worth it after the points change? And if so, how should I equip them?

I’ve dabbled with missile sides with a advanced targeting system, and I’ve played with railsides with plasma. I think railgun sides are lean and mean, but my missile boys leave me pondering if they are indeed worth it. If they aren’t, might I ask where I should look for anti tank power after I’ve gotten my 2-4 commanders?

Broadsides seem very expensive; I feel they probably want as many shield drones as possible to help protect them (but also makes them that much more expensive).

I'm trying to find a way to Manta Strike them, to keep them off the battlefield until needed; since I'm not seeing a way (might just be missing something), perhaps they want Target Locks to help them move into better firing positions a little... but, maybe they're better off being deployed mid-table, and trying to soak with drones, and stay stationary/fire from where they are.

As far as other anti-tank goes; FireWarriors+stratagem will wound anything on a 4+ - this is the codex of the FireWarrior spam; at least until suits drop to a better price/provide more options.

I really want the Missile/Missle Suits to be great - I love missiles in general; that said, Railgun/Plasma seems to be the way to go, at least for maximum damage output and price.

Broadsides got a massive points drop and are fantastic heavy support choices now only rivaled by Ionheads. They are very durable in cover and benefit from all the Tau buffs which, given their new points drop, makes them competitive choices now.

give em vectored retro thrusters?

I like them both a lot.

Though a warlord with extra AP on 6s to wound stacked with ATS and then popping Command and Control Node with Missiles sounds like fun...

Heavy Rail Rifle Broadsides are definitely in the top tier of anti-tank efficiency for Tau. Dropping to 125 points before systems makes them a really efficient source of shooting, as long as they've got some tanks to hunt. Their only real competitors from an efficiency standpoint are Ion Hammerheads with a Longstrike buff, or a Y'vahra turning its flamer on a tank.

At first glance I'd go for Railsides with SMS and TL in case you need to move them around to get LOS to your target. Might be redundant if you manage to deploy in such a way that you don't need to move around though.

 meleti wrote:
Heavy Rail Rifle Broadsides are definitely in the top tier of anti-tank efficiency for Tau. Dropping to 125 points before systems makes them a really efficient source of shooting, as long as they've got some tanks to hunt. Their only real competitors from an efficiency standpoint are Ion Hammerheads with a Longstrike buff, or a Y'vahra turning its flamer on a tank.

This is not true. HRR and Smart Missile Systems (the longest range set of weapons that do the highest amount of damage possible vs T7/T8 3+) achieve 36.97 ppw vs T7/3+ and are 57.19 ppw vs T8/3+. A XV85 quad fusion commander still achieves 20.86 ppw vs T7/3+ and 27.54 ppw vs T8/3+, making the QFC the undeniable king of anti-armor in Tau.

Missilesides with an ATS achieve 46.06 ppw vs T7/3+ and 63.33 ppw vs T8/3+, making it worse than the Railside at AT but more versatile due to weight of fire.

The top tier is undeniably the Tau commander, followed by a mid-tier of Iontides, Railsides, Ionheads, and other assorted choices.

KinGensai wrote:

 meleti wrote:
Heavy Rail Rifle Broadsides are definitely in the top tier of anti-tank efficiency for Tau. Dropping to 125 points before systems makes them a really efficient source of shooting, as long as they've got some tanks to hunt. Their only real competitors from an efficiency standpoint are Ion Hammerheads with a Longstrike buff, or a Y'vahra turning its flamer on a tank.

This is not true. HRR and Smart Missile Systems (the longest range set of weapons that do the highest amount of damage possible vs T7/T8 3+) achieve 36.97 ppw vs T7/3+ and are 57.19 ppw vs T8/3+. A XV85 quad fusion commander still achieves 20.86 ppw vs T7/3+ and 27.54 ppw vs T8/3+, making the QFC the undeniable king of anti-armor in Tau.

Missilesides with an ATS achieve 46.06 ppw vs T7/3+ and 63.33 ppw vs T8/3+, making it worse than the Railside at AT but more versatile due to weight of fire.

The top tier is undeniably the Tau commander, followed by a mid-tier of Iontides, Railsides, Ionheads, and other assorted choices.

3 Missile Broadsides plus Commander w/ 2x PR (cheapest possible) in the situation I mentioned above...568 points.

(Note I separated the rerolls to show the explodes better)

//Pods
24 * .5 * .333 * .666 * 2 = 5.3
24 * .5 * .167 * .833 * 2 = 3.33 //explode

//rerolls
24 * .5 * .25 * .333 * .666 = 0.67
24 * .5 * .25 * .167 * .833 = 0.42 //explode

//SMS
24 * .5 * .167 * .5 * 2 = 2
24 * .5 * .167 * .666 * 2 = 2.67 //explode

//rerolls
24 * .5 * .333 * .167 * .5 = 0.33
24 * .5 * .333 * .167 * .666 = 0.44 //explode

15.2 wounds total or 37.4 PPW. And I don't even need to shoot with the commander. He can just...command...

Then give that commander a drone controller. Stick a bunch of sniper drones nearby with a marksman. Then put Strike Teams near the bubble supported by Darkstrider.

Viola...

- Sniper drones hitting on 3s
- Fire Warriors getting AP1 on 5s to wound

KinGensai wrote:

 meleti wrote:
Heavy Rail Rifle Broadsides are definitely in the top tier of anti-tank efficiency for Tau. Dropping to 125 points before systems makes them a really efficient source of shooting, as long as they've got some tanks to hunt. Their only real competitors from an efficiency standpoint are Ion Hammerheads with a Longstrike buff, or a Y'vahra turning its flamer on a tank.

This is not true. HRR and Smart Missile Systems (the longest range set of weapons that do the highest amount of damage possible vs T7/T8 3+) achieve 36.97 ppw vs T7/3+ and are 57.19 ppw vs T8/3+. A XV85 quad fusion commander still achieves 20.86 ppw vs T7/3+ and 27.54 ppw vs T8/3+, making the QFC the undeniable king of anti-armor in Tau.

Missilesides with an ATS achieve 46.06 ppw vs T7/3+ and 63.33 ppw vs T8/3+, making it worse than the Railside at AT but more versatile due to weight of fire.

The top tier is undeniably the Tau commander, followed by a mid-tier of Iontides, Railsides, Ionheads, and other assorted choices.

Dude, we're not choosing between a Broadside and a quad fusion Commander. We're already taking the Commander. We can't take another, because of the detachment limit. If you're playing a casual game where someone lets you take six detachments, why even bother analyzing how efficient your units are?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

KinGensai wrote:

 meleti wrote:
Heavy Rail Rifle Broadsides are definitely in the top tier of anti-tank efficiency for Tau. Dropping to 125 points before systems makes them a really efficient source of shooting, as long as they've got some tanks to hunt. Their only real competitors from an efficiency standpoint are Ion Hammerheads with a Longstrike buff, or a Y'vahra turning its flamer on a tank.

This is not true. HRR and Smart Missile Systems (the longest range set of weapons that do the highest amount of damage possible vs T7/T8 3+) achieve 36.97 ppw vs T7/3+ and are 57.19 ppw vs T8/3+. A XV85 quad fusion commander still achieves 20.86 ppw vs T7/3+ and 27.54 ppw vs T8/3+, making the QFC the undeniable king of anti-armor in Tau.

Missilesides with an ATS achieve 46.06 ppw vs T7/3+ and 63.33 ppw vs T8/3+, making it worse than the Railside at AT but more versatile due to weight of fire.

The top tier is undeniably the Tau commander, followed by a mid-tier of Iontides, Railsides, Ionheads, and other assorted choices.

3 Missile Broadsides plus Commander w/ 2x PR (cheapest possible) in the situation I mentioned above...568 points.

(Note I separated the rerolls to show the explodes better)

//Pods
24 * .5 * .333 * .666 * 2 = 5.3
24 * .5 * .167 * .833 * 2 = 3.33 //explode

//rerolls
24 * .5 * .25 * .333 * .666 = 0.67
24 * .5 * .25 * .167 * .833 = 0.42 //explode

//SMS
24 * .5 * .167 * .5 * 2 = 2
24 * .5 * .167 * .666 * 2 = 2.67 //explode

//rerolls
24 * .5 * .333 * .167 * .5 = 0.33
24 * .5 * .333 * .167 * .666 = 0.44 //explode

15.2 wounds total or 37.4 PPW. And I don't even need to shoot with the commander. He can just...command...

Then give that commander a drone controller. Stick a bunch of sniper drones nearby with a marksman. Then put Strike Teams near the bubble supported by Darkstrider.

Viola...

- Sniper drones hitting on 3s
- Fire Warriors getting AP1 on 5s to wound

That is pretty neat. How does it compare to a 4 missle commander just calling kauyon back with the broadsides? with the same warlord trait?
How does it compare to just a 5 marker light target buff?

 Xenomancers wrote:

That is pretty neat. How does it compare to a 4 missle commander just calling kauyon back with the broadsides? with the same warlord trait?
How does it compare to just a 5 marker light target buff?

Sorry - I screwed up the other calculation - misplaced the damage on the pods (which I think may have reduced the total) so i'll redo it here w/. kauyon.
EDIT: Original should be 13.9 instead of 15.2 so a little over a wound less, but still outshines the proposed setup.

642 for the setup above.

With kauyon:

24 * .75 * .5 * .666 * 2 = 12 24 * .75 * .333 * .5 = 3 8 * .972 * .5 * .666 * 2 = 5.2

18.2 total; 35.3 ppw

And the my setup with kauyon and proper calculation:

//Pods 24 * .75 * .333 * .666 * 2 = 8 24 * .75 * .167 * .833 * 2 = 5 //explode //rerolls 24 * .75 * .25 * .333 * .666 * 2 = 2 24 * .75 * .25 * .167 * .833 * 2= 1.3 //explode //SMS 24 * .75 * .167 * .5 = 1.5 24 * .75 * .167 * .666 = 2 //explode //rerolls 24 * .75 * .333 * .167 * .5 = 0.5 24 * .75 * .333 * .167 * .666 = 0.67 //explode

21 total; 27 ppw and the commander is still free to take other systems for support

Granted, I haven't been involved in very many 8E games, but they seem decent enough if they are supported by nearby Fire Warriors to keep them from being charged. Lets them focus on enemy heavy infantry and vehicles.

HYMP does seem a better deal than the Rail version, sadly.