Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Space Marines; Raven Guard - Infiltrate [Infantry/Dread]
Blood Angels: ? // Upon Wings of Fire [allows re-deepstriking once a Jump Pack unit is on the field]
Dark Angels: ?
Grey Knights: Teleportarium [Infantry/Dread]
Space Wolves: [codex not out]

Adeptus Custodes: From The Golden Light They Come [Infantry/Biker/Dread]
Adeptus Mechanicus: Stygies - Infiltrate [Any] / Lucius - Teleportarium [Any]
Astra Militarum: Tallarn - Ambush [Character/Infantry]/Outflank [Any (max 1 vehicle unit)]

CSM: Alpha Legion: Infiltrate [Infantry]
Death Guard: ?
Thousand Sons: Webway Infiltration [Infantry]
Daemons: Denizens of the Warp [Daemon]

Eldar: Webway Strike [Infantry/Biker] // Cloud Strike [Vehicle+Unit]
Dark Eldar: Webway Portal [Infantry/Biker/Beast]
Harlequins: Webway Assault [Non-vehicle]

Orks: [codex not out]
Tau: ?
Tyranids: Jormungandr - Enemy Below [Infantry]
GSC: [codex not out] // Cult Ambush [Character/Infantry]
Necrons: [codex not out] // Translocation Crypt [Infantry/Swarm]

It occured to me when I was looking over the Tau options, that it appared they didn't have a way to Deep Strike anything (via strategem); which means they're limited to what units already have Deep Strike - their suits. Space Marines fall into a wierd camp; a couple Chapters don't have any dedicated deep strike stratagems, but, you can always just run them as Raven Guard and deep strike anyways.

Now, I need to do this list again, but for transports that can deep strike - it seems many armies have an option to purchase deep strike via dedicated transport; but again, didn't see that option for Tau (though, I'm still looking).

The list got a little messy, as I wanted to include what unit types could also be deep struck in addition - maybe that was unnecessary, but it's fun to compare options.

Just a point of clarification, the Raven Guard strategem only works on infantry.

Guard are like Marines, in that only one faction has a deep-strike lite, and that deep-strike-lite has restrictions. :|

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Guard are like Marines, in that only one faction has a deep-strike lite, and that deep-strike-lite has restrictions. :|

Gaurd have manticores. Deep strike not needed. Space marine have 24" rapid fire as their only competitive form of damage. Which army you think it hurts more? My 10 man helblaster unit that can't get into effective range before it's killed by 2 manticores? or the army that never needs to leave it's deployment zone?

Does it matter when a ton of your units already have native deep strike?

Translocation Crypt is the Nephrekh unique stratagem so it's limited the same as the Raven Guard one is.

Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

That would be literally the best stratagem in the entire space marine codex if it were a space marine stratagem.

Ravenguard marines have a better one though, which also matches perfectly with aggressors.

The SW stratagem is handy if you play aggressive with outflanking wulfen, teleported terminators plus fast units like TWC and wolf guad bikers. Eventually with a wolf priest with jump packs that grants the re-roll of failed to hit rolls in combat and arjac that buffs the wolf guard, terminators and bikers. They usually are all part of my list

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

That would be literally the best stratagem in the entire space marine codex if it were a space marine stratagem.

How? It's literally the same but you have to be 9" from the edge.

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

Only infantry, not bikes or cavalry.

Ulfhednar_42 wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

Only infantry, not bikes or cavalry.

Thank you for correcting this I don't have CA and only read it once. I always use the stratagem only for wulfen so I haven't done it wrong in my games luckily.

 Xenomancers wrote:
stuff

Translation:

How dare you imply guard isn't anything but the most busted army in existence! Also I am the one who is oppressed! I have it WAY worse than all of you! You should all pity me since I'm super skilled for playing my underpowered army that isn't the way overpowered guard. Manticores wipe 3 marine squads with every shot! So busted. Tournaments should ban all guard. Also every guard player should walk into traffic.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel, buddy.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

That would be literally the best stratagem in the entire space marine codex if it were a space marine stratagem.

Space marines have deep striking terminators and flying gunny dudes, they don't need it.


Orks have Da Jump, which is almost a deep strike equivalent?

Tau don't really need it. The things you want close to your opponent already have deep strike, the things you don't want close to your opponent have anywhere from 30 - 72" range.

Tau are fine.

 Eonfuzz wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Space wolves have a stratagem that allows an infantry/biker/cavalry unit to outflank. Not a real deepstrike but something similar.

That would be literally the best stratagem in the entire space marine codex if it were a space marine stratagem.

Space marines have deep striking terminators and flying gunny dudes, they don't need it.


Orks have Da Jump, which is almost a deep strike equivalent?

I agree, SM have terminators and jump packs dudes that deepstrike, orks have da jump and also kommandos which are basically 9ppm boyz with lesser damage output (max squad is 15 models, so no +1A for fielding 20+ bodies) that can deepstrike.

What all the outflank/deepstrike strategems do is really devalue Drop Pods, since I could pay 85 points or a CP to outflank my squad. And the outflank ability works on Hellblasters too.

Well, looking only on stratagems is a bit silly.

Some armies got other methods, like Tau having multiple native infiltrators/deepstrikers/scoutmoves.

Off the top of my head
Crisis suits, commands, drones and vespids got deepstrike
Stealth suits and ghostkeel has infiltrate
Kroot carnivores and pathfinders has scout moves

And that's not counting FW units (who honestly mostly suck right now)

With this wide array of alternate deployment, who needs a stratagem?

 Blackie wrote:
Ravenguard marines have a better one though, which also matches perfectly with aggressors.

The SW stratagem is handy if you play aggressive with outflanking wulfen, teleported terminators plus fast units like TWC and wolf guad bikers. Eventually with a wolf priest with jump packs that grants the re-roll of failed to hit rolls in combat and arjac that buffs the wolf guard, terminators and bikers. They usually are all part of my list

Infiltrate is only effective if you go first. So roughly 50% of the time it will lose you the game instead of help you win - in other words (it's not competitive). If codex marines could outflank hellblasters - they would be much more effective than they are currently and it would be the best stratagem in the entire codex because of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, looking only on stratagems is a bit silly.

Some armies got other methods, like Tau having multiple native infiltrators/deepstrikers/scoutmoves.

Off the top of my head
Crisis suits, commands, drones and vespids got deepstrike
Stealth suits and ghostkeel has infiltrate
Kroot carnivores and pathfinders has scout moves

And that's not counting FW units (who honestly mostly suck right now)

With this wide array of alternate deployment, who needs a stratagem?

Yes - the topic should really be. What armies have the best deepstrike options.

This list looks like this.

Eldar
AM
Nids
choas
GK
orks
tau
ect...
= excellent deep strike options

What armies have bad deep strike options?

Space marines
Admech
ect...



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
What all the outflank/deepstrike strategems do is really devalue Drop Pods, since I could pay 85 points or a CP to outflank my squad. And the outflank ability works on Hellblasters too.

What is a drop pod worth when you can deepstrike a unit for a command point? Pretty close to 0 I think.

Space Marines have really good deep strike options. Raven Guard and Lias Issodon are some of the best deep striking there is.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Ravenguard marines have a better one though, which also matches perfectly with aggressors.

The SW stratagem is handy if you play aggressive with outflanking wulfen, teleported terminators plus fast units like TWC and wolf guad bikers. Eventually with a wolf priest with jump packs that grants the re-roll of failed to hit rolls in combat and arjac that buffs the wolf guard, terminators and bikers. They usually are all part of my list

Infiltrate is only effective if you go first. So roughly 50% of the time it will lose you the game instead of help you win - in other words (it's not competitive). If codex marines could outflank hellblasters - they would be much more effective than they are currently and it would be the best stratagem in the entire codex because of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, looking only on stratagems is a bit silly.

Some armies got other methods, like Tau having multiple native infiltrators/deepstrikers/scoutmoves.

Off the top of my head
Crisis suits, commands, drones and vespids got deepstrike
Stealth suits and ghostkeel has infiltrate
Kroot carnivores and pathfinders has scout moves

And that's not counting FW units (who honestly mostly suck right now)

With this wide array of alternate deployment, who needs a stratagem?

Yes - the topic should really be. What armies have the best deepstrike options.

This list looks like this.

Eldar
AM
Nids
choas
GK
orks
tau
ect...
= excellent deep strike options

What armies have bad deep strike options?

Space marines
Admech
ect...

That's just kind of dishonest.

Chaos has the same deepstrike option as Space Marines, and Space Marines have drop pods too [which aren't entirely useless]. You can infiltrate stabby units too, if that's what you want to do.

Orks' "'ere we go!" is a psychic power, which inherently makes it worse than any of the options as you can only do it once per turn.


Infiltrate is better the stabbier you are. You don't really care about it's boon if you're a shooting unit, but it's much, much better if you're a stabby unit. It's stronger offensively, but weaker defensively. In addition, with a little thought and cleverness, you can use it very effectively in a 2nd move scenario, since you do get to know if you're going first or second before you put out your infiltrators.

Infiltrate is actually really, really good. It's basically a deferred deployment opportunity, so every unit you pack away with infiltrate is both a deployment drop that gives away very little information to your opponent and a deployment drop that occurs after you know everything about how the game is going to start. That's really powerful if you have half a mind as to what you're doing, whether you're going first or second.

Also, Admech not only has the same deep strike options as Alpha Legion and Raven Guard, but they also get a way better version of the Daemons stratagem (because the Daemons one sometimes costs 2 CP based on power level, but the Lucius one is always one).

 meleti wrote:
Space Marines have really good deep strike options. Raven Guard and Lias Issodon are some of the best deep striking there is.

Infiltrate isn't Deep Strike.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


Chaos has the same deepstrike option as Space Marines, and Space Marines have drop pods too [which aren't entirely useless]. You can infiltrate stabby units too, if that's what you want to do.

Chaos has Denizens of the Warp, Space Marines don't. What you should be objecting to is treating CSM and CD as one entity.

Infiltrate may as well be Deep Strike...but one in which you're hoping to god you get first turn.

Eldar are a unique case, because while they have two excellent stratagems (which are exclusive to each other), their native deepstrikers are nothing particularly great.

Just to clarify infiltrate doesn't work the same for all armies, some get deffered deployment, spacemarine scouts and tau stealth suits just get to set up outside their deployment zone as part of their normal deployment sequence. Good for deepstrike denial, realy not great for their survival prospects

Ice_can wrote:
Just to clarify infiltrate doesn't work the same for all armies, some get deffered deployment, spacemarine scouts and tau stealth suits just get to set up outside their deployment zone as part of their normal deployment sequence. Good for deepstrike denial, realy not great for their survival prospects

Yep. The Raven Guard's Strike From the Shadows stratagem lets you set up before turn 1 outside 9" (letting you move turn 1), while their Raptors character Lias Issodon lets you ambush at the end of any movement phase which denies movement like the typical deep strike rule. I would still consider both of these to be deep strike or deep strike-like.

Ice_can wrote:
Just to clarify infiltrate doesn't work the same for all armies, some get deffered deployment, spacemarine scouts and tau stealth suits just get to set up outside their deployment zone as part of their normal deployment sequence. Good for deepstrike denial, realy not great for their survival prospects

I was talking about the Alpha Legion and Raven Guard stratagems, which are identical.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Chaos has the same deepstrike option as Space Marines, and Space Marines have drop pods too [which aren't entirely useless]. You can infiltrate stabby units too, if that's what you want to do.

Chaos has Denizens of the Warp, Space Marines don't. What you should be objecting to is treating CSM and CD as one entity.

Sorry.