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So couple of things i'm stuggling to find rules on:

1. Say you took an imperial bunker is there anything stopping you deploying it on top of other terrain. e.g. a landing pad or on top of a ruin!?

2. Can we plonk models on the battlements without them being 'in the bunker' e.g. another unit sitting on top to get cover with another unit inside the bunker. Pretty sure they count as a normal model so you can't do this but just checking.


edit: ah they have vehicles KW so ruins are out of the question (well ground floor is ok)

 Latro_ wrote:
So couple of things i'm stuggling to find rules on:

1. Say you took an imperial bunker is there anything stopping you deploying it on top of other terrain. e.g. a landing pad or on top of a ruin!?

2. Can we plonk models on the battlements without them being 'in the bunker' e.g. another unit sitting on top to get cover with another unit inside the bunker. Pretty sure they count as a normal model so you can't do this but just checking.

1) No, but the rules don't cover that situation to begin with.

2) RaW, no you cannot because it's a model.

just realised they have vehicles KW so ruins are out of the question (well ground floor is ok)

So, if you deploy a bunker on the ground floor of a ruin, and its 50% obscured from the attackers view, it gets cover (the bunker has the VEHICLE keyword) ?

I'll need to dig out my chapter approved but I'm 90% confident that you can put models ontop of fortifications and get cover, since they have battlement rules. They however get shot at vs barked units which can't be shot at, the bunker is then shot at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well I can't find anything saying you can, nor can't. Because it's a building though, I don't believe it abides by can't stand on it, but I don't think you gain cover from it.

But in all honesty I would go with common sense and even house rule if you are on top it's a barrier

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Latro_ wrote:
So couple of things i'm stuggling to find rules on:

1. Say you took an imperial bunker is there anything stopping you deploying it on top of other terrain. e.g. a landing pad or on top of a ruin!?

2. Can we plonk models on the battlements without them being 'in the bunker' e.g. another unit sitting on top to get cover with another unit inside the bunker. Pretty sure they count as a normal model so you can't do this but just checking.

1) No, but the rules don't cover that situation to begin with.

2) RaW, no you cannot because it's a model.

Agree with this.

I believe there is a precedent set in the Stronghold Assault section of CA. They suggest placing models Embarked within a fortification on top to remind you they are there. There are no rules I am aware of for standing on the battlements? (going off a mission played with an Imp Bastion, not sure if other buildings differ)

 DW wrote:
I believe there is a precedent set in the Stronghold Assault section of CA. They suggest placing models Embarked within a fortification on top to remind you they are there. There are no rules I am aware of for standing on the battlements? (going off a mission played with an Imp Bastion, not sure if other buildings differ)

There does not appear to be, but then again there is nothing g saying you can't move non embarked models ontop of them either, since it's a building I don't see a reason you can. Weather it gives you bonus as cove would be up to a house rule

Yep you get a cover save if its in the bottom of ruins and 50% covered XD.

The ontop thing is an interesting one as the movement rules dont actually stop you going 'on top' of another model in your army as far as i can read. They simply say you cannot move 'though' a model but can mover vertically.

You could argue therefore you can veritcally move to the top of any model heck this would mean you can stand on top of a rhino.

Then with wobbly model syndrome you could technically argue a lascannon marine and stand on top of another marine if it moved vertically e.g. 2" up XD

EDIT: actually the rules say you can move vertically to traverse 'scenery' so i guess that covers it as a flat no when moving. However deployment does not count as moving... so have at it XD start deployed ontop of a landraider or bunker... you just cant get off it

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 DW wrote:
I believe there is a precedent set in the Stronghold Assault section of CA. They suggest placing models Embarked within a fortification on top to remind you they are there. There are no rules I am aware of for standing on the battlements? (going off a mission played with an Imp Bastion, not sure if other buildings differ)

There does not appear to be, but then again there is nothing g saying you can't move non embarked models ontop of them either, since it's a building I don't see a reason you can. Weather it gives you bonus as cove would be up to a house rule

Whoops, no rule book in front of me. Didn't remember the <building> keyword existed haha

 DW wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 DW wrote:
I believe there is a precedent set in the Stronghold Assault section of CA. They suggest placing models Embarked within a fortification on top to remind you they are there. There are no rules I am aware of for standing on the battlements? (going off a mission played with an Imp Bastion, not sure if other buildings differ)

There does not appear to be, but then again there is nothing g saying you can't move non embarked models ontop of them either, since it's a building I don't see a reason you can. Weather it gives you bonus as cove would be up to a house rule

It's not a "building", its a "model". No permission given to put models on top of one another.

It is a building though, it has the building keyword, I'm not sure how it can be more of a building lol

whoops, edited my comment - didn't have my CA in front of me to check for <building> on the bastion.....

 DW wrote:
whoops, edited my comment - didn't have my CA in front of me to check for <building> on the bastion.....

All good I was just so confused lol.

But yes because it's a building imoretty sure you can walk on it with models. It would be really dumb if you could not.

BUILDING does not give you permission to put models on that model. The model’s special rules and abilities must state that you can. BUILDING is used for other things, like seeing how hard a Caestus Assault Ram smashes into something. It is just a Keyword and as such carries no rules in and of itself to my knowledge.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
BUILDING does not give you permission to put models on that model. The model’s special rules and abilities must state that you can. BUILDING is used for other things, like seeing how hard a Caestus Assault Ram smashes into something. It is just a Keyword and as such carries no rules in and of itself to my knowledge.

Fortifications are set up as terrain as they can be captured. You can walk ontop of them

 Backspacehacker wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
BUILDING does not give you permission to put models on that model. The model’s special rules and abilities must state that you can. BUILDING is used for other things, like seeing how hard a Caestus Assault Ram smashes into something. It is just a Keyword and as such carries no rules in and of itself to my knowledge.

Fortifications are set up as terrain as they can be captured. You can walk ontop of them

Some are, some aren't. Most of the buildings are unit's not terrain. They can't be captured, and can't be walked upon.
The designers note for the bunker/bastion tells us that the battlements are purely thematic and can be used to represent embarked models.

Thats twisting the wording. The designers note does not say its 'purely thematic' and can 'only be used'. It simply says it might be useful to place embarked models on top to remember they are there.

What he said, it says you can put models up there to remind you. You can place models ontop of them, there is no issue of that, where the problem comes in is weather you get any cover benefits from it

You cannot place models on a bastion any more than you can on a vehicle. It's not terrain, it's a unit with unique rules.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
What he said, it says you can put models up there to remind you. You can place models ontop of them, there is no issue of that, where the problem comes in is weather you get any cover benefits from it

You only place embarked models there. They count as in a vehicle and can’t be targeted, cover isn’t a consideration as they aren’t really *there*. You can’t place units there that aren’t embarked. (The exception is the Skyshield using a RAI fix, as RAW it just plain doesn’t work otherwise.)

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 Backspacehacker wrote:
What he said, it says you can put models up there to remind you. You can place models ontop of them, there is no issue of that, where the problem comes in is weather you get any cover benefits from it

You only place embarked models there. They count as in a vehicle and can’t be targeted, cover isn’t a consideration as they aren’t really *there*. You can’t place units there that aren’t embarked. (The exception is the Skyshield using a RAI fix, as RAW it just plain doesn’t work otherwise.)

Wouldn't you be able to use the same RAI fix for the imperial bastion?

The skyshield has rules which intrinsically assume you place models on the flat section.

The bastion has commentary telling you the battlements are aesthetic.

The RAI are completed different.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The skyshield has rules which intrinsically assume you place models on the flat section.

The bastion has commentary telling you the battlements are aesthetic.

The RAI are completed different.

Agreed.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The skyshield has rules which intrinsically assume you place models on the flat section.

The bastion has commentary telling you the battlements are aesthetic.

The RAI are completed different.

Agreed.

I do not see anything in the bastion rules "telling you the battlements are aesthetic"

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The skyshield has rules which intrinsically assume you place models on the flat section.

The bastion has commentary telling you the battlements are aesthetic.

The RAI are completed different.

Agreed.

I do not see anything in the bastion rules "telling you the battlements are aesthetic"

Designer’s Note: When you embark models onto an Imperial Bastion, you may find it useful to place some of them on the battlements to remind you which unit(s) are inside the fortification.

It’s right there in black and white. A visual aid, nothing more, hence “aesthetic”. Otherwise, it’s a ‘model’ and the usual rules apply.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The skyshield has rules which intrinsically assume you place models on the flat section.

The bastion has commentary telling you the battlements are aesthetic.

The RAI are completed different.

Agreed.

I do not see anything in the bastion rules "telling you the battlements are aesthetic"

Designer’s Note: When you embark models onto an Imperial Bastion, you may find it useful to place some of them on the battlements to remind you which unit(s) are inside the fortification.

It’s right there in black and white. A visual aid, nothing more, hence “aesthetic”. Otherwise, it’s a ‘model’ and the usual rules apply.

That is not "telling you the battlements are aesthetic"

That just says that you can put models there to remind yourself of what unit is embarked.


The battlements would block LoS to a unit behind the bastion, thus not aesthetic.

Well quite, but no different to any other part of any other model.

Ok, LOS is not what was being discussed - obviously all parts of a model affect LOS, never in question. What was being discussed was some people claiming models could just climb up and ‘be on’ the battlements. The rules don’t let you do that, they say you can put models there as a visual reminder of what is embarked, nothing else. Do we have to re-describe what is written or is it clear?

I would think that you would discuss it with your opponent. The terrain/building rules are so vague that I always go over everything on the table with my opponent to keep disputes to a minimum.

Buildings work similar to vehicles. They have a transport capacity. You can say 10 models are inside a bunker, but placing 10 inside, and then another 10 on top is not allowed.