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Hello, i have question regard ForgeW Elysian Officer 4th Order,

Move and Fire! it says "Any Infantry Models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn"

Does this mean it changes ALL weapons (include equipped grenade into Assault Weapon, thus allow each model to shoot all assault weapons both lasgun and grenade) because my friend said grenade counts as weapon too thus by pass the rule where only 1 model may throw grenade

Is it? If not, is there rule book page which specifies what type of weapon the grenade is?

darrekbaal wrote:
Hello, i have question regard ForgeW Elysian Officer 4th Order,

Move and Fire! it says "Any Infantry Models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn"

Does this mean it changes ALL weapons (include equipped grenade into Assault Weapon, thus allow each model to shoot all assault weapons both lasgun and grenade) because my friend said grenade counts as weapon too thus by pass the rule where only 1 model may throw grenade

Is it? If not, is there rule book page which specifies what type of weapon the grenade is?

Yes, it means all your grenades become Assault D6, thus there is no longer a limit to how many can be used because that limit is part of the Grenade weapon type rules. This was pointed out literally day 0 of the Index release. Typical Forge World silliness.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

darrekbaal wrote:
Hello, i have question regard ForgeW Elysian Officer 4th Order,

Move and Fire! it says "Any Infantry Models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn"

Does this mean it changes ALL weapons (include equipped grenade into Assault Weapon, thus allow each model to shoot all assault weapons both lasgun and grenade) because my friend said grenade counts as weapon too thus by pass the rule where only 1 model may throw grenade

Is it? If not, is there rule book page which specifies what type of weapon the grenade is?

Yes, it means all your grenades become Assault D6, thus there is no longer a limit to how many can be used because that limit is part of the Grenade weapon type rules. This was pointed out literally day 0 of the Index release. Typical Forge World silliness.

Why is it silliness, and isn’t RAW the same as RAI? ;-)

Many armies have Stratagems that do the same, who’s to say it wasn’t intended?

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

darrekbaal wrote:
Hello, i have question regard ForgeW Elysian Officer 4th Order,

Move and Fire! it says "Any Infantry Models in the ordered unit count their weapons as being Assault weapons until the end of the turn"

Does this mean it changes ALL weapons (include equipped grenade into Assault Weapon, thus allow each model to shoot all assault weapons both lasgun and grenade) because my friend said grenade counts as weapon too thus by pass the rule where only 1 model may throw grenade

Is it? If not, is there rule book page which specifies what type of weapon the grenade is?

Yes, it means all your grenades become Assault D6, thus there is no longer a limit to how many can be used because that limit is part of the Grenade weapon type rules. This was pointed out literally day 0 of the Index release. Typical Forge World silliness.

Why is it silliness, and isn’t RAW the same as RAI? ;-)

Many armies have Stratagems that do the same, who’s to say it wasn’t intended?

It is RAI since RAW == RAI always, didn't you know that? Jeez!
But honestly it's silly, even if you think it was actually intended. Like with the modifiers after re-rolls - clearly intended, clearly written, still a stupid solution.

So there is no point using other weapons isn't it? just spam Krak Grenade Str6 D3 damage.

Funny when I first read, I thought of it as similar to most common trick out there turning rapid fire gun into assault gun like Black Legion Trait.

All because 1 word, "weapon" instead "gun"

darrekbaal wrote:
So there is no point using other weapons isn't it? just spam Krak Grenade Str6 D3 damage.

Funny when I first read, I thought of it as similar to most common trick out there turning rapid fire gun into assault gun like Black Legion Trait.

All because 1 word, "weapon" instead "gun"

Well, there isn't a clear definition of 'gun' in the rules, so that doesn't really help. Some weapons could be open to interpretation.

What they should have done, as similar abilities do, is specify that only Rapid Fire weapons become Assault.

How would this interact with MELEE weapons? Would they become Assault too?

 JNAProductions wrote:
How would this interact with MELEE weapons? Would they become Assault too?

No, because that makes absolutely no sense. I don’t believe the rule specifies Shooting weapons but intent is obvious that they mean that. Melee weapons don’t have a range, so they’d be useless as Assault anyway. Anyone trying to argue that your Power Sword becomes Assault so you can’t use it in the Fight Phase is just looking for unintended advantage, and someone not worth playing, tbh...

darrekbaal wrote:
So there is no point using other weapons isn't it? just spam Krak Grenade Str6 D3 damage.

Well those are rather short ranged...

And then if opponent disagrees with intent of rule and is feeling evil he can simply point out that as per RAW assault weapons while allows to shoot after advancing don't remove restriction on selecting unit to shoot thus unit can't actually shoot and as someone is fan of saying RAW=RAI so obviously RAI is that assault weapons dont' actually do anything...

tneva82 wrote:

darrekbaal wrote:
So there is no point using other weapons isn't it? just spam Krak Grenade Str6 D3 damage.

Well those are rather short ranged...

And then if opponent disagrees with intent of rule and is feeling evil he can simply point out that as per RAW assault weapons while allows to shoot after advancing don't remove restriction on selecting unit to shoot thus unit can't actually shoot and as someone is fan of saying RAW=RAI so obviously RAI is that assault weapons dont' actually do anything...

But that’s one guy and we don’t play him. ;-)

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
How would this interact with MELEE weapons? Would they become Assault too?

No, because that makes absolutely no sense. I don’t believe the rule specifies Shooting weapons but intent is obvious that they mean that. Melee weapons don’t have a range, so they’d be useless as Assault anyway. Anyone trying to argue that your Power Sword becomes Assault so you can’t use it in the Fight Phase is just looking for unintended advantage, and someone not worth playing, tbh...

I'm not saying PLAY IT that way. But I am saying the RAW is borked, since it technically applies to melee weapons.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
How would this interact with MELEE weapons? Would they become Assault too?

No, because that makes absolutely no sense. I don’t believe the rule specifies Shooting weapons but intent is obvious that they mean that. Melee weapons don’t have a range, so they’d be useless as Assault anyway. Anyone trying to argue that your Power Sword becomes Assault so you can’t use it in the Fight Phase is just looking for unintended advantage, and someone not worth playing, tbh...

I'm not saying PLAY IT that way. But I am saying the RAW is borked, since it technically applies to melee weapons.

Indeed. It needs to say "non-Melee weapons".

That being said, the range is still Melee so they can't even shoot them. However it also means they no longer can attack in combat because their "default" CCW granted by the rulebook also becomes Assault, it's not optional.

You're only given permission to fight with weapons of the Melee type, not the Assault type.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
How would this interact with MELEE weapons? Would they become Assault too?

No, because that makes absolutely no sense. I don’t believe the rule specifies Shooting weapons but intent is obvious that they mean that. Melee weapons don’t have a range, so they’d be useless as Assault anyway. Anyone trying to argue that your Power Sword becomes Assault so you can’t use it in the Fight Phase is just looking for unintended advantage, and someone not worth playing, tbh...

I'm not saying PLAY IT that way. But I am saying the RAW is borked, since it technically applies to melee weapons.

Indeed. It needs to say "non-Melee weapons".

That being said, the range is still Melee so they can't even shoot them. However it also means they no longer can attack in combat because their "default" CCW granted by the rulebook also becomes Assault, it's not optional.

You're only given permission to fight with weapons of the Melee type, not the Assault type.

And because this is stupid, illogical and clearly unintended that’s not how you play it, unless you like unplayable “RAW Only Mode” games. So that’s justvyou. ;-)