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Let's assume the following: I have a Bloodthirster (which has Fly) that is stood 8" from a building that is 8" high. The Bloodthirster wants to move to the top of the building. Can it move there in one turn (it'd be an 11.3" move diagonally) or does it have to take into account the vertical movement as well? I know vertical movement usually counts as movement, but does Fly allow the model to land on top of the building, since it's allowed to move over buildings "as though they aren't there"?


In short, does the Bloodthirster move along A or B in this example picture (ignore the measurements on the image, they're wrong)?

It's a 12" move. You ignore the vertical distance when moving models that can fly.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's a 12" move. You ignore the vertical distance when moving models that can fly.

See, this is the thing, I've been looking like mad in the BRB but I can't find anywhere that says this. It only says that "If the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there." on page 177 (under "Moving"). The question is whether moving across models and terrain as if they were not there also applies to the vertical distance moved; we're not told we're allowed to ignore that distance anywhere I can find.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
It's a 12" move. You ignore the vertical distance when moving models that can fly.

See, this is the thing, I've been looking like mad in the BRB but I can't find anywhere that says this. It only says that "If the datasheet for a model says it can FLY, it can move across models and terrain as if they were not there." on page 177 (under "Moving"). The question is whether moving across models and terrain as if they were not there also applies to the vertical distance moved; we're not told we're allowed to ignore that distance anywhere I can find.

The newest rulebook FAQ says:

Q: When a unit that can Fly declares a charge move against a unit that is on the upper levels of a ruin, do I need to include the vertical distance when making the subsequent charge move for the unit?
A: No. A unit that can Fly effectively ignores vertical distances when making a charge move. Note though that the charging unit must still be within 12" (measured directly ‘base-to-base’, i.e. diagonally) to be able to declare the charge in the first place.

Charge Moves by definition follow the movement rules (there is literally no other way for Charge Moves to work), thus the normal movement rules allow for models with FLY to ignore vertical distance. It's a strong inference at best but with nothing explicitly forbidding it it is safe to assume that movement follows the same rules whenever those rules are used.

Of course this contradicts the Stepping into a New Edition FAQ so who the hell knows anymore with GW. This is like the 4th contradictory FAQ they have given so I've just stopped caring really.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Charge Moves by definition follow the movement rules (there is literally no other way for Charge Moves to work), thus the normal movement rules allow for models with FLY to ignore vertical distance. It's a strong inference at best but with nothing explicitly forbidding it it is safe to assume that movement follows the same rules whenever those rules are used.

Of course this contradicts the Stepping into a New Edition FAQ so who the hell knows anymore with GW. This is like the 4th contradictory FAQ they have given so I've just stopped caring really.

I completely agree with you that this is contradictory, but I feel like the rules are allowing us to still use Wobbly Model Syndrome for normal movement, while this recent FAQ is specifically stating that only charge moves fail when you cannot finish on the same floor entirely.

The Stepping into a New Edition FAQ specifically says:

Q: What happens when an Infantry model cannot
completely end its move on a floor of ruins when
attempting to scale the walls?
A: If an Infantry model is unable to complete a move
to a stable position, use the Wobbly Model Syndrome
guidelines in the core rules to identify with your
opponent where your model’s actual location is.

Since it's saying move and not charge move I assume this only works for normal movement and advancing. I feel like this FAQ rule was written without really clarifying how it interacts with the Stepping Into a New Edition document. They really should cross reference their own material or maybe just release one giant FAQ document that is self contained and is consistent.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Let's assume the following: I have a Bloodthirster (which has Fly) that is stood 8" from a building that is 8" high.

The Bloodthirster wants to move to the top of the building.

Can it move there in one turn (it'd be an 11.3" move diagonally) or does it have to take into account the vertical movement as well?

Movement phase the argument would be that it moves the Diagonal (FLY moves any direction) ignoring intervening models and terrain (But not the one it is landing on.)

Charge phase (Per FAQ) as long as it has room to land on top of the building it would be just a 8" charge (ignoring the vertical aspect)

Just got this image pointed out by a friend:



This is from the Know No Fear starter set and clearly states that flying units do not measure vertical movement when moving. I'd like to say that settles it, but considering it contradicts other rules...

Thats how we played it last night, post beta. You literally ignore height if you have FLY.

Meaning if you're in a ruin with whatever. Guardsmen. And theres a level above. An enemy unit with fly literally cannot fly to that upper level because it would be too close to the unit "Ignoring vertical distance when moving" and all that.

I was hoping it would be measuring base to base (Diagonal) still counted. But doesn't seem to be the case.

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Meaning if you're in a ruin with whatever. Guardsmen. And theres a level above. An enemy unit with fly literally cannot fly to that upper level because it would be too close to the unit "Ignoring vertical distance when moving" and all that.

I was hoping it would be measuring base to base (Diagonal) still counted. But doesn't seem to be the case.

You ignore the vertical distance when moving with flyers, but this does not mean that they would be considered within an inch if there is an enemy unit on a lower/higher level though. Or more specifically, if a unit of Swooping Hawks is on the the first floor of a ruins, and there is a squad of Scouts on the second, the Hawks would be 3" away because of how levels work.

 mokoshkana wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Meaning if you're in a ruin with whatever. Guardsmen. And theres a level above. An enemy unit with fly literally cannot fly to that upper level because it would be too close to the unit "Ignoring vertical distance when moving" and all that.

I was hoping it would be measuring base to base (Diagonal) still counted. But doesn't seem to be the case.

You ignore the vertical distance when moving with flyers, but this does not mean that they would be considered within an inch if there is an enemy unit on a lower/higher level though. Or more specifically, if a unit of Swooping Hawks is on the the first floor of a ruins, and there is a squad of Scouts on the second, the Hawks would be 3" away because of how levels work.

RAW Vertical distance is ignored with fly. They would be considered base to base.

A silly blanket statement like this is a blanket statement.

 rhinoceraids wrote:

 mokoshkana wrote:

 rhinoceraids wrote:
Meaning if you're in a ruin with whatever. Guardsmen. And theres a level above. An enemy unit with fly literally cannot fly to that upper level because it would be too close to the unit "Ignoring vertical distance when moving" and all that.

I was hoping it would be measuring base to base (Diagonal) still counted. But doesn't seem to be the case.

You ignore the vertical distance when moving with flyers, but this does not mean that they would be considered within an inch if there is an enemy unit on a lower/higher level though. Or more specifically, if a unit of Swooping Hawks is on the the first floor of a ruins, and there is a squad of Scouts on the second, the Hawks would be 3" away because of how levels work.

RAW Vertical distance is ignored with fly. They would be considered base to base.

A silly blanket statement like this is a blanket statement.

No, vertical is ignored during movement, not at all times for all purposes. If you finish moving with a FLY unit and their base is 3” away they are 3” away. If you try a Charge and can only finish 3” away you are not within 1”, so the Charge would fail.

Yeah. I think I'm out to lunch.

Disregard.

Wow this is huge if Fly units get to move so freely. We have a new table at my LGS with loads of Sector Mechanicus scenery, meaning many high building. Thanks to the FAQ I charged Farsight after DS with my TH Master from DS easily.