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Didn't get much feedback on my list here last time but I made a few sizeable revisions to it so I thought I'd try again. Usually bounce back and forth between here and Reddit anyways so it's Dakka's turn!

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [32 PL, 527pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave, Psychic Maelstrom, Terrifying Visions

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave, Nightshroud, Terrifying Visions

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Bullgryns [13 PL, 210pts]
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul
. Bullgryn: Bullgryn Maul, Slabshield
. Bullgryn Bone 'ead: Brute Shield, Bullgryn Maul

++ Brigade Detachment +12CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [50 PL, 775pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Colonel 'Iron Hand' Straken [4 PL, 75pts]

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Shotgun

Company Commander [2 PL, 30pts]: Chainsword, Shotgun

+ Troops +

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

Infantry Squad [3 PL, 45pts]
. 7x Guardsman
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Sergeant: Chainsword, Laspistol

+ Elites +

Astropath [1 PL, 30pts]: Laspistol, Psychic Maelstrom

Ministorum Priest [2 PL, 35pts]: Chainsword, Laspistol

Sergeant Harker [3 PL, 50pts]

+ Fast Attack +

Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer

Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer

Scout Sentinels [3 PL, 52pts]
. Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer

+ Heavy Support +

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 33pts]
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar
. Heavy Weapon Team: Mortar

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) [36 PL, 698pts] ++

+ HQ +

Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Captain [6 PL, 129pts]: Jump Pack, Storm shield, Thunder hammer

Captain on Bike [6 PL, 136pts]: Storm shield, Thunder hammer, Twin boltgun

+ Elites +

Death Company [18 PL, 304pts]: Jump Pack
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Thunder hammer
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Power fist
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword
. Death Company Marine: Boltgun, Chainsword

++ Total: [118 PL, 2000pts] ++

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Revised after discussion on other forums.

The basic idea of the list is to use the Command Points and recycling from Imperial Guard to enable the Blood Angels to get a lot of work done, primarily against Vehicles/Monsters. I've been experimenting with 1-2 units of Death Company but I think I'm settled on one for now. It has a few Chainsword models to absorb Overwatch but the main purpose is to punch big targets. All of the Captains are outfitted to survive and can also do a lot of tricks themselves, pretty much every game the Jump Pack Captain will buy The Angel's Wings. Keep in mind that this list can Charge on Turn 1 using either the pre-game move for Death Company or Upon Wings of Fire, or both. Usually that won't happen but it's on the table.

On the Guard side their job is to clog up the board and deal with hordes/screens. S4 with Straken and a Priest packs a huge punch so the Guardsmen can either stay back and shoot or move up the board and start wading in. I also opted for a Bullgryn package as they're strong Objective clearers when the Captains/Death Company have other things to do and they're nearly impossible to kill when Stratagems/Psychic Powers get rolling. In my experience time will not be an issue for this list as on Turns 1-2 a lot of the Guardsmen get killed off which speeds up the game, also there's dice shortcutting, movement trays, etc.

Some minor things are the Thunder Hammers on the Death Company, this is just a mathematical breakpoint against certain profiles that I need them to one round. The Bullgryn have one Slapshield to handle AP 1 in Melee and I have Psychic Malestrom in two places as it's a strong spell to soften certain Vehicles that I expect to see a lot of but the Primaris Psykers will often be busy with Smite or buffs. Everything else should be fairly self-explanatory but I'm happy to provide further information if something doesn't make sense.

Hope to get some feedback, I will likely test the list out this evening and see how it goes.

Just curious as I've seen this before on other lists; what's the deal with Blood Angels Captains?

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just curious as I've seen this before on other lists; what's the deal with Blood Angels Captains?

They hit incredibly hard because of the The Red Thirst. Wounds everything but T8+ on a 2+, flat 3 Damage, high accuracy. They're also very cheap. The Jump Pack Captain is a favorite because he can have a Relic to re-roll Charges and deny Overwatch which makes him an extreme threat to Fliers and gunlines. You can also tool them up for +d3 Attacks on the Charge, +1 Attack via Death Company Keyword, and fighting twice.

 The Prince of Excess wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Just curious as I've seen this before on other lists; what's the deal with Blood Angels Captains?

They hit incredibly hard because of the The Red Thirst. Wounds everything but T8+ on a 2+, flat 3 Damage, high accuracy. They're also very cheap. The Jump Pack Captain is a favorite because he can have a Relic to re-roll Charges and deny Overwatch which makes him an extreme threat to Fliers and gunlines. You can also tool them up for +d3 Attacks on the Charge, +1 Attack via Death Company Keyword, and fighting twice.

Damn, that's pretty decent

To be honest, I think I'd dread your shooting phase; not because of your actual shooting but because it would take about an hour to roll and reroll all those dice. I never want to play against that list.

The list looks a bit "pre-faq" to me. The blood angel stuff has taken a really heavy nerf now it can't deep strike on turn 1. This is a particular problem with an army that'll be lucky to get to turn 3 in a timed game.

Also, you've got an eversor in your BA detachment, which messes it up. You won't get your chapter tactics or stratagems. I'm pretty sure you need them. This is easily fixed by splitting your death company, or ditching the wholly unnecessary battalion (do you really need 20 CPs?!). Or just drop the Eversor, since he is also screwed by the deep strike changes.

To be honest I think this army would be taken to pieces by anyone with tanks that had some dakka. The BA guys are fairly dangerous but I think you're asking too much of them I'm afraid.

That said, if your plan is to grab some maelstrom points early on and then run out the clock, this army could be perfect.

Mandragola wrote:
To be honest, I think I'd dread your shooting phase; not because of your actual shooting but because it would take about an hour to roll and reroll all those dice. I never want to play against that list.

The list looks a bit "pre-faq" to me. The blood angel stuff has taken a really heavy nerf now it can't deep strike on turn 1. This is a particular problem with an army that'll be lucky to get to turn 3 in a timed game.

Also, you've got an eversor in your BA detachment, which messes it up. You won't get your chapter tactics or stratagems. I'm pretty sure you need them. This is easily fixed by splitting your death company, or ditching the wholly unnecessary battalion (do you really need 20 CPs?!). Or just drop the Eversor, since he is also screwed by the deep strike changes.

To be honest I think this army would be taken to pieces by anyone with tanks that had some dakka. The BA guys are fairly dangerous but I think you're asking too much of them I'm afraid.

That said, if your plan is to grab some maelstrom points early on and then run out the clock, this army could be perfect.

I've had no problem getting through the shooting phase, I've been playing Horde lists since 8th dropped. This is much faster than 160 Cultists, trust me.

Blood Angels can absolutely assault on Turn 1 via Upon Wings of Fire per the clarification from Games Workshop. As this indicates the list is for ITC only, Maelstrom is not competitive. I did brain-fart the Eversor removing the Chapter Tactic, still getting used to their weird wording. In that light I have a revised list that I'll post soon. I assure you tank armies aren't competitive right now, especially with The Rule of Three. There's so many ways to tie them up that unless the army was specifically tooling for me it's an extremely uphill climb.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Updated to not be a goober.

Catachan doctrine seems a waste, I'd be running Cadians for the rerolls. Alternatively if you're set on some Catachans, move Straken to the battalion, deploy them infront, then run the brigade as Cadians deployed behind them. Full rerolls on mortars (with orders) is too good to miss

 Brother Payne wrote:
Catachan doctrine seems a waste, I'd be running Cadians for the rerolls. Alternatively if you're set on some Catachans, move Straken to the battalion, deploy them infront, then run the brigade as Cadians deployed behind them. Full rerolls on mortars (with orders) is too good to miss

That’s actually a really good point. It’s only catachan vehicles that get to reroll their number of shots. The mortars don’t.

That said, catachan basilisks and manticores with Harker around are brutal things.

I can see how it would seem like Catachans is a waste but I think you're missing some critical points. For one this is not a gunline, the Guardsmen are in the list for three reasons: Command Points, Remove Screens/Hordes, and Objectives. Command Points are Regiment neutral so we'll never mind that. Cadians are better are removing screens because of the increased re-rolls on the Mortars but Catachans are better against hordes. Why? Because they can fight. Hordes are often going to flinging guys at your backfield and tying things up, this is were Cadians start to fall apart. Catachans are also better at Objectives because that involves moving and holding ground. Catachans also get better Leadership with an Office around which is a really big deal when it comes to units not dying (extremely important in the ITC Missions) and being able to control space on the board.

I absolutely see where you're coming from and please let me know if you have further thoughts on that. I picked Catachans because the Blood Angels part of my army cannot deal with hordes, the Death Company are okay at it but that's about it. I can't just rely on shooting hordes down. There are also a lot of games where the Guardsmen would do nothing if they're just shooting but S4 let's them do damage to Vehicles, Marines, and a lot of other common threats without relying on lasguns. To me that's the weakness of all IG lists, when you start seeing -1 to Hit and canny play it's really easy to pick the army apart.

Also Catachans give the Sentinels re-roll shots on the Heavy Flamers, minor but handy to have. :]

Yeah I can understand why you'd want Catachan doctrine for board control. I still think at least one of those detatchments should be Cadian - chances are you won't be moving every infantry squad, and if you bubble wrap properly those mortar units at the back probably won't have to end up in combat anyway. Picking which detatchment to run as Cadian is tricky because both the mortars and sentinels are in the brigade and neither can be moved over. It would come down to how many infantry squads you plan on moving around - which it sounds like is a lot, so maybe run the battalion as Cadian. I just think for the back line troops, the Catachan doctrine is a little too situational, whereas you'll put the Cadian doctrine to work almost every turn.

After playing the list two more times I'm firmly of the mindset that Cadians would be a disaster. Even with re-roll 1's to Hit/Wound the Mortars are doing very little work and that's nearly the same odds as re-rolling all hits, no wounds. Unless I'm against another horde, IG/Orks, the list is so much more powerful if everything runs screaming at the enemy. So far in every game I wish I would have Advanved nearly every Guard model over the first 1-2 Turns, with the Orders to move again. Standing still and shooting is almost always pointless and is going to get worse against very competitive lists. I think Catachans are nearly the only worthwhile Regiment within the ITC and a competitive meta unless you're going very light on Guard. Then Caidians win.

Fair enough, more power to you!

Having your catachans bayonet stuff to death is a cool idea and might just work. That works be interesting to see.

Maybe you could just lose the mortars from your infantry squads. They don’t do much, as you’ve said. That would free up points for something or other. I’d probably want to swap the mortar squads for basilisks, but if you’re happy as is then fair enough.

Mortars in the Infantry squads are necessary because of an ITC secondary mission. Your enemy gets a point for every unit with 10+ models in it. Sticking a mortar in makes those units only have 9 models.

 Elric Greywolf wrote:
Mortars in the Infantry squads are necessary because of an ITC secondary mission. Your enemy gets a point for every unit with 10+ models in it. Sticking a mortar in makes those units only have 9 models.

This is the correct answer.

I played another game over the weekend with the list, which I tied in. The more I play the list the more reinforced I get that unless I'm against another horde I have to just run at whatever I'm playing against with nearly everything. I'm also pretty sure the Death Company are too glass-cannon for the army, their damage output is high but the Captains are enough to beat most lists. If someone wants to run an extreme skew like three Vaults, so be it. But the list is effectively a melee only army.