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Okay, I may be overthinking this

This stragem (Focused Fire) is used when you inflict an unsaved wound on a unit in the shooting phase. So what is an unsaved wound?

Lets say I fire a HRR at a Riptide with drone support and roll a 6 to wound.

Does the mortal wound count as an unsaved wound? Also assuming that the SP throw is successful what does the original wound roll, which was never saved, count as and against.

Looking at the rules, I cannot find any definition as to what an unsaved wound explicitly is. The nearest I can infer is that an unsaved wound =/= an unsavable wound though they both have the same effect of reducing the wounds profile.

Cheers

Andrew

A wound is what is created after the To Hit and To Wound rolls - at that point it is still "saveable".
That wound is then allocated, and an attempt to save is made (if available).
A Mortal Wound is still a wound, it just skips the "To Hit" and "To Wound" steps, it is still allocated like other wounds.
After a save is failed (or impossible due to AP or Mortal), it is now an "unsaved wound", which will trigger things like Feel No Pain. Things might get tricky if you have multiple rules which trigger off the same unsaved wound, which is then ignored due to a FnP effect.

Don't have the Tau codex, what is the specific rule you are referring to?

Its the Focused Fire stratagem. The relevant bit is in my second sentence.

However your answer still leaves me with doubts. Because you, like me, haven't provided a RAW answer as to what an Unsaved Wound is, simply the RAI answer.

Cheers

Andrew

 AndrewC wrote:
Its the Focused Fire stratagem. The relevant bit is in my second sentence.

However your answer still leaves me with doubts. Because you, like me, haven't provided a RAW answer as to what an Unsaved Wound is, simply the RAI answer.

Cheers

Andrew

No, he’s given you a summary of the RAW, as per the rules and relevant FAQs. Capitalise it all you like, Unsaved Wound is not in itself a Rules term, and Qanar’s take on how to play it is correct.

There is no definition what an unsaved wound is in the rules. An unsaved wound is a wound that wasnt saved, it would reduce the wound count of the target unit. A MW cant be saved, only ignored. RAW, even if its ignored, it remains an unsaved wound. But i believe you are talking about the drones saviour protocols. If the riptide would suffer a MW the drones could intercept it. The riptide wouldnt suffer an unsaved wound, it wouldnt even suffer a MW, because it was intercepted by the drones. You wouldnt be able to use focused fire on the riptide, it didnt suffer an unsaved wound.

Johnny, did you actually read what you wrote. You cant claim it's a RAW definition and then say that it's not in itself a rules term. I also never said that Qanars take on it was wrong.

p5, it's not so much about the protocols but as to what qualifies as an unsaved wound. This is a slightly pedantic view. In order to utilise SP the Riptide has to be wounded. Now as far as I can see, that, in conjunction with the next sentence seem to suggest that after rolling to wound, and before armour saves a Tau unit can pass it over to a drone. Since he never saves, isn't that by definition an unsaved wound?

A

 AndrewC wrote:

p5, it's not so much about the protocols but as to what qualifies as an unsaved wound. This is a slightly pedantic view. In order to utilise SP the Riptide has to be wounded. Now as far as I can see, that, in conjunction with the next sentence seem to suggest that after rolling to wound, and before armour saves a Tau unit can pass it over to a drone. Since he never saves, isn't that by definition an unsaved wound?

If you target the riptide, inflict a wound, and drones intercept it, the riptide doesnt suffer an unsaved wound. If the drones lose a wound you could use focused fire on the drones.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the question is more on the fact that the wounding attack triggers a mortal wound as well as normal damage. Does the mortal wound count for triggering Focused Fire?

Is that the question?

I think Focused fire needs the model to actually suffer(lose) a wound before you can trigger it. I'm pretty sure that SP can absorb mortal wounds as well.

Saviour Protocols: If a <SEPT> INFANTRY or <SEPT> BATTLESUIT unit within 3" of a friendly <SEPT> DRONES unit is wounded by an enemy attack, roll a D6. On a 2+ you can allocate that wound to the Drones unit instead of the target. If you do, that Drones unit suffers a mortal wound instead of the normal damage.

I think at the point the mortal wound is generated SP can still kick in and only if they roll a 1 does the riptide lose the wound and at that point you can trigger focused fire. I don't think you can trigger focused fire before SP in order to kill more drones

 Nithaniel wrote:
Does the mortal wound count for triggering Focused Fire?

RAW, you cannot save MW. They can only be ignored. Its unclear if a MW would count as an unsaved wound, because you cant save them. If an unsaved wound is when the attacked unit loses a wound, then yes, a MW is an unsaved wound.

 Nithaniel wrote:

I think Focused fire needs the model to actually suffer(lose) a wound before you can trigger it. I'm pretty sure that SP can absorb mortal wounds as well.

Yes, SP can intercept MW.

 Nithaniel wrote:

I think at the point the mortal wound is generated SP can still kick in and only if they roll a 1 does the riptide lose the wound and at that point you can trigger focused fire. I don't think you can trigger focused fire before SP in order to kill more drones

Yes.

 AndrewC wrote:
Johnny, did you actually read what you wrote. You cant claim it's a RAW definition and then say that it's not in itself a rules term. I also never said that Qanars take on it was wrong.

p5, it's not so much about the protocols but as to what qualifies as an unsaved wound. This is a slightly pedantic view. In order to utilise SP the Riptide has to be wounded. Now as far as I can see, that, in conjunction with the next sentence seem to suggest that after rolling to wound, and before armour saves a Tau unit can pass it over to a drone. Since he never saves, isn't that by definition an unsaved wound?

A

I wrote exactly what intended to, that the other chap gave you a summary of the RAW surrounding this situation, and that “Unsaved Wound” is not in itself a defined rules term. My post makes complete sense, thanks.

The faq changed the wording.

Page 130 – Focused Fire
Change the rules text to read:
‘Use this Stratagem after a T’au Sept unit from your
army has attacked an enemy unit in the Shooting phase
and the attack resulted in the enemy unit losing one or
more wounds. Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made by
other T’au Sept units from your army that target the
same enemy unit this phase.’

Clear enough?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
The faq changed the wording.

Page 130 – Focused Fire
Change the rules text to read:
‘Use this Stratagem after a T’au Sept unit from your
army has attacked an enemy unit in the Shooting phase
and the attack resulted in the enemy unit losing one or
more wounds. Add 1 to wound rolls for attacks made by
other T’au Sept units from your army that target the
same enemy unit this phase.’

Clear enough?

Thank you Bob, exactly what I was looking for. For the FaQ to change the wording, I would guess that I wasn't the only one who was questioning it for clarity.

Cheers

Andrew