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Did the nerf to deepstriking ruin adeptus custodes? Now to move across the board turn one we need an expensive land Raider

Custodes Bikers, and Custodes Bike Captains; spam them like normal.

Add in deepstriking troops for turn 2+.

Basically the same gameplan as normal.

So nobody uses land Raiders to move units up the board?

Nobody uses Land Raiders, period.

ballzonya wrote:
Did the nerf to deepstriking ruin adeptus custodes? Now to move across the board turn one we need an expensive land Raider

No, Codex Custodes bikes is fine.
All the other units in the book are fluff anyway.

Land Raiders cost to much, die to quickly and simply get locked in combat when they come close to deliver their cargo. Rendering them unable to fire.
They suck this edition, regardless of which army brings them.

The best way to run AC competitively is a single SCC with three captains.

 Ordana wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
Did the nerf to deepstriking ruin adeptus custodes? Now to move across the board turn one we need an expensive land Raider

No, Codex Custodes bikes is fine.
All the other units in the book are fluff anyway.

Land Raiders cost to much, die to quickly and simply get locked in combat when they come close to deliver their cargo. Rendering them unable to fire.
They suck this edition, regardless of which army brings them.

I find it curious that a LR in a custodes army where everything is a target for anti tank that it wouldn't benefit the army in some fashion.

ballzonya wrote:
So nobody uses land Raiders to move units up the board?

No. A Land Raider costs 400 points, for 4 Lascannons. It's not worth it remotely.

Some might be viable as gun platforms if they ignored close quarters, but even then that's pushing it.

To play Custodes competitively they currently need an ally that brings ranged AT to bust armor and monsters but that could all change when Forgeworld releases rules for their über dreadnaughts and grav tanks. Custodes don’t need a first turn charge to win either - they just need some terrain that blocks LoS.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
So nobody uses land Raiders to move units up the board?

No. A Land Raider costs 400 points, for 4 Lascannons. It's not worth it remotely.

Some might be viable as gun platforms if they ignored close quarters, but even then that's pushing it.

BS2 Lascannons at a BS3 price. And a 6+++.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

ballzonya wrote:
So nobody uses land Raiders to move units up the board?

No. A Land Raider costs 400 points, for 4 Lascannons. It's not worth it remotely.

Some might be viable as gun platforms if they ignored close quarters, but even then that's pushing it.

BS2 Lascannons at a BS3 price. And a 6+++.

The fact that even with that its still universally declared garbage shows just how bad Land Raiders are this edition.

 Ordana wrote:

The fact that even with that its still universally declared garbage shows just how bad Land Raiders are this edition.

They aren't the best things around, but I have a feeling the sentiment is more subjective than anything.

If you go look at some of the lists from the Barnyard GT there isn't a lot that threatens a LR. Sure, Shadowswords, but this LR could possibly survive a round from one. Not that there is much left...

The Kronos list had 18 impaler cannons and a rupture cannon. This thing could take the full shooting from their entire army and possibly be still ticking.

Let's make some assumptions for a moment. A game is 4 or 5 turns. The LR removed a full turn of shooting from their army, so 20 to 25% of their total output for a game. But their shooting will degrade during the game so it will likely be more like 30 to 35% of their total output. If you could pay 400 points (20%) to make your opponent 30-35% weaker, would you?

Alternatively those impalers kill 4.5 vertus praetors (423 points). The rupture cannon kills another. The 10 devourers kill another. 611 points lost or 400?

Now, I realize that doesn't mean that's how the game would play out, but it's a good tool to demonstrate the conflict of choices.

You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

Wait isn't it 100 points for all 4 lascannons total?

And yes, this is the reason Games Workshop gave Lords of War the ability to shoot while tied up - otherwise things like Baneblades would be atrocious garbage compared to their equivalent points in smaller tanks. I'm just not sure where they drew the line.

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

I imagine it would have something in it that pops out and kills pests. Or something near it. It's not an automatic thing that happens. And if they have enough of those things they have less that hurts the LR at range (no one is reserving points for gaunts in case they need to surround a vehicle).

I don't really think it's as cut and dry as people make it.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

I imagine it would have something in it that pops out and kills pests. Or something near it. It's not an automatic thing that happens. And if they have enough of those things they have less that hurts the LR at range (no one is reserving points for gaunts in case they need to surround a vehicle).

I don't really think it's as cut and dry as people make it.

Oh no, my ten man squad of gaunts got charged my your special terminators instead of my valuable units after making your Shooty transport even more useless.

Literally killing the things that got in CC with it is pointless. You’d need to kill them before the shooting phase.

 Jaxler wrote:

Oh no, my ten man squad of gaunts got charged my your special terminators instead of my valuable units after making your Shooty transport even more useless.

Literally killing the things that got in CC with it is pointless. You’d need to kill them before the shooting phase.

Last I checked there's plenty of hurricane bolters to go around and no models are anywhere near the LR turn 1.

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

You can? What if your opponent is smart and screens it or they kill all your gants and rippers? Also AC have access to grav tanks which have the keyword Fly - what will you do now?

Kill them because they are way too expensive for their durability. Repulsor is in the running for worst unit in the whole codex. Probably not the winner, but it's in the running.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

Wait isn't it 100 points for all 4 lascannons total?

And yes, this is the reason Games Workshop gave Lords of War the ability to shoot while tied up - otherwise things like Baneblades would be atrocious garbage compared to their equivalent points in smaller tanks. I'm just not sure where they drew the line.

You've got to consider the total cost - it's 400pts to get four lascannon shots. That's very expensive shooting. If it's delivering units then it's getting charged and losing it's ability to shoot.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Ordana wrote:
You don't need to kill the land raider, you can just charge it with a small handful of termagaunts or rippers.

Its to expensive for its point cost as a weapon platform (100 pts per lascannon is crap) so your 'winning' if that's all its doing.

Wait isn't it 100 points for all 4 lascannons total?

And yes, this is the reason Games Workshop gave Lords of War the ability to shoot while tied up - otherwise things like Baneblades would be atrocious garbage compared to their equivalent points in smaller tanks. I'm just not sure where they drew the line.

You've got to consider the total cost - it's 400pts to get four lascannon shots. That's very expensive shooting. If it's delivering units then it's getting charged and losing it's ability to shoot.

Well, 4 lascannon shots at BS 2+ on a T8 2+ platform with half again as many wounds as a Predator.

And six heavy bolter shots, also at BS 2+.

It’s not as bad as some make it out to be but it’s a point hoggy in a Points hungry army.