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HQ:
Captain [StfS] [5PL]
Combi-Plasma, Power Sword
Armour Indomitus
[93]

Lieutenant [SftS] [4PL]
MC Boltgun
[63]

Elites:
(5) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [12PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[185]

(5) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [12PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[185]

(5) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [12PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[185]

Troops:
(5) Intercessor Squad [5PL]
Bolt Rifles, AGL, Power Sword
[95]

(5) Intercessor Squad [5PL]
Bolt Rifles, AGL, Power Sword
[95]

(7) Scouts [10PL]
Boltgun
[77]

(7) Scouts [10PL]
Boltgun
[77]

[1055]

Raven Guard Spearhead +1CP

HQ:
Captain [5PL]
MC Boltgun, Power Sword
Storm of Fire
[81]

Heavy:
(10) Hellblaster Squad [SftS potentially] 16PL
Plasma Incinerator
[330]

(6) Hellblaster Squad [16PL]
Plasma Incinerator
[198]

(6) Devastator Squad [11PL]
2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Cherub
[168]

(6) Devastator Squad [11PL]
2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Cherub
[168]

[945]

[2000]

Revised based on lots of input on the Tactica. Always good to get more input here too!

Anyone? Thoughts?

It looks pretty optimised for the post FAQ changes. Just a few thoughts for potential tweaks:

- SftS is very CP handy and Raven Guard have access to one of the cheapest Chapter Masters in the game. For ~50 youcan change a captain for Shrike. That's maybe two Lascannons or a hellblaster and something else.
- That said, Storm of Fire with the Aggressors can be interesting which Shrike can't take. I'd probably choose that over Iron Resolve.
- Consider using a unit of 6 and unit of 3 Aggressors to save on SftS CP. If you really want them split up you can combat squad them early for free or later with a stratagem.
- I'd drop the scouts to five man units, you can probably Sqeeze Shrike in with that.
- Also, your army lacks counter assault. SM struggle with this as they're expensive. You could consider a five man LC van vet squad instead of one three man Aggressors squad. Or soup in a shield captain on a bike.

Let us know how it goes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and your points are way off for the Aggressors! They went down in Chapter Approved.

smbarne wrote:
It looks pretty optimised for the post FAQ changes. Just a few thoughts for potential tweaks:

- SftS is very CP handy and Raven Guard have access to one of the cheapest Chapter Masters in the game. For ~50 youcan change a captain for Shrike. That's maybe two Lascannons or a hellblaster and something else.
- That said, Storm of Fire with the Aggressors can be interesting which Shrike can't take. I'd probably choose that over Iron Resolve.
- Consider using a unit of 6 and unit of 3 Aggressors to save on SftS CP. If you really want them split up you can combat squad them early for free or later with a stratagem.
- I'd drop the scouts to five man units, you can probably Sqeeze Shrike in with that.
- Also, your army lacks counter assault. SM struggle with this as they're expensive. You could consider a five man LC van vet squad instead of one three man Aggressors squad. Or soup in a shield captain on a bike.

Let us know how it goes!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and your points are way off for the Aggressors! They went down in Chapter Approved.

I will shuffle the Aggressors for the Combat Squad thing. Good idea. I didn't realize it would work with the timing.

My points should be right - I believe I took them straight out of CA.

I will tinker with a counter-assault unit. VV are so pricey though. :( If I do an alternate list with Shrike, I will probably to VVs since he buffs them nicely.

Oh man... How did I overlook Storm of Fire?!

Oh, I didn't realize the Aggressors were 5 man units each. Fifteen Aggressors is definitely interesting. They really clear T3 and some T4 stuff, but can struggle against high T or good save targets. They've got a max size of 6 so ignore my recommendation above unless you want to drop to using 9 total.

Combat squadding before battle still would mean you have to pay 2CP to SftS them, but you at least have the flexibility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more thing . I like using a Captain in Gravis armor with the Armor Indomitus and the Storm of Fire warload trait next to the Aggressors. I don't think he's the **most** competitive option, but if you buff him to a Chapter Master, he can be T5, 2+/3++ and buff those Aggressors nicely. For extra fun, Iron Resolve gives him another wound and FNP.

I just played against a similar list yesterday, and on seeing a similar one, these are the concerns I had:

1) He needed a 2nd scout squad, and you have one. CHECK.

2) He was relying on getting the first turn, or the aggressors would end up either dead or out of range. Your solution? More long range firepower to draw opponents in (though I'd do more devs and less hellblasters). CHECK.

So I see good things. Now as for a counter-assault unit, may I make a suggestion? Tool up your HQs for the job! I run a captain and lieutenant, both with jump packs. The captain takes the teeth of terra and the lieutenant takes the armor indomitus (replacing no invul with a 3++ is a bigger deal) and stays in front of him. And then you get all those aggressor power fists.

And one more note: I find that running one devastator flunkie with no heavy weapon really makes opponents shy away from targeting them, knowing that their first kill will be sooo not worth their time.

smbarne wrote:Oh, I didn't realize the Aggressors were 5 man units each. Fifteen Aggressors is definitely interesting. They really clear T3 and some T4 stuff, but can struggle against high T or good save targets. They've got a max size of 6 so ignore my recommendation above unless you want to drop to using 9 total.

Combat squadding before battle still would mean you have to pay 2CP to SftS them, but you at least have the flexibility.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more thing . I like using a Captain in Gravis armor with the Armor Indomitus and the Storm of Fire warload trait next to the Aggressors. I don't think he's the **most** competitive option, but if you buff him to a Chapter Master, he can be T5, 2+/3++ and buff those Aggressors nicely. For extra fun, Iron Resolve gives him another wound and FNP.

I expect to see lots of Eldar, IG and Nids. As well as Orks (local fav). So Aggressors should suit my meta. I thought about tooling out my Captain that goes up with the Aggressors, for sure. Could do that, though I am not sure where I will cut.

Celerior wrote:I just played against a similar list yesterday, and on seeing a similar one, these are the concerns I had:

1) He needed a 2nd scout squad, and you have one. CHECK.

2) He was relying on getting the first turn, or the aggressors would end up either dead or out of range. Your solution? More long range firepower to draw opponents in (though I'd do more devs and less hellblasters). CHECK.

So I see good things. Now as for a counter-assault unit, may I make a suggestion? Tool up your HQs for the job! I run a captain and lieutenant, both with jump packs. The captain takes the teeth of terra and the lieutenant takes the armor indomitus (replacing no invul with a 3++ is a bigger deal) and stays in front of him. And then you get all those aggressor power fists.

And one more note: I find that running one devastator flunkie with no heavy weapon really makes opponents shy away from targeting them, knowing that their first kill will be sooo not worth their time.

I have two ablative dudes on the Dev squads. That should help them.

Not a bad plan on the HQs getting some extra potency in combat to help act as counter-assault units. You both suggested it!

I have so, SO many Dev models, I can tinker with numbers of squads if I find I need less Heckblasters and more Las/ML/HB options.

Personally I would remove some and get three squads of Inceptors, then make it a battalion...

JmOz01 wrote:
Personally I would remove some and get three squads of Inceptors, then make it a battalion...

Those things always struck me as overpriced, even after the point changes. Not sure what they would offer my list.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

JmOz01 wrote:
Personally I would remove some and get three squads of Inceptors, then make it a battalion...

Those things always struck me as overpriced, even after the point changes. Not sure what they would offer my list.

They're really not that bad, each guy's packing 2 Heavy Bolters he can move and fire with no penalty. D

 Valkyrie wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

JmOz01 wrote:
Personally I would remove some and get three squads of Inceptors, then make it a battalion...

Those things always struck me as overpriced, even after the point changes. Not sure what they would offer my list.

They're really not that bad, each guy's packing 2 Heavy Bolters he can move and fire with no penalty. D

But they cost a lot and don't really fit the mission goal, that I can see. I am open to ideas, but I want to make sure they are a good fit. Price-wise, they cost quite a bit and I am not sure what I would cut to find room for them that doesn't undermine the overall list.

Also, for further consideration, here is a list with a mild counter-assault element in the HQs. Had to make some compromises here and there.

Raven Guard Battalion +5CP

HQ:
Kayvaan Shrike [SftS] [8PL]
[150]

Lieutenant [4PL]
MC Boltgun, Power Axe
[68]

Elites:
(6) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [12PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[222]

(6) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [12PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[222]

(3) Aggressor Squad [SftS] [6PL]
Boltstorm, Fragstorm
[111]

Troops:
(5) Intercessor Squad [5PL]
Bolt Rifles, AGL
[91]

(5) Intercessor Squad [5PL]
Bolt Rifles, AGL
[91]

(6) Scouts [10PL]
Boltgun
[66]

(6) Scouts [10PL]
Boltgun
[66]

[1087]

Raven Guard Spearhead +1CP 51 PL

HQ:
Captain [5PL]
MC Boltgun, Power Sword
Iron Resolve, Armor Indomitus
[81]

Heavy:
(10) Hellblaster Squad [SftS potentially] [16PL]
Plasma Incinerator
[330]

(5) Hellblaster Squad [8PL]
Plasma Incinerator
[165]

(6) Devastator Squad [11PL]
2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Cherub
[168]

(6) Devastator Squad [11PL]
2x Lascannons, Heavy Bolter, Missile Launcher, Cherub
[168]

[912]

[1999]

Shrike was not my first choice, but I think his buff aura and combat ability/mobility are solid. Should be able to hop into combat and shred stuff up when needed. Captain and Looey can throw down a bit more now with their power weapons, which should help... somewhat. They will at least be a roadblock (with my screen units) to keep my gunline from getting locked up too quickly.

Shifted the Aggressors into that format to bring my PL commitment down for non-standard deployments and I do have the option to combat squad them up a bit.

Only thing to note in the 2nd list is you wouldn't be able to use SftS on that potential 10 man Hellblaster squad, due to it taking you over the 1000 point limit on reserves. You'd have to drop down from a 10 man to an 8 man squad.

SftS doesn't put the unit in reserve.

They aren’t deployed “normally” so, do they not count as being placed in reserve for the purposes of deployment? I thought anything not deployed within the deployment phase was counted as going into reserve?

Kdash wrote:
Only thing to note in the 2nd list is you wouldn't be able to use SftS on that potential 10 man Hellblaster squad, due to it taking you over the 1000 point limit on reserves. You'd have to drop down from a 10 man to an 8 man squad.

"When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined Power Ratings of all the units you set up on the battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Tr ansports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your army’s total Power Level, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere." Big FAQ

This indicates it goes by Power Rating/Level and total unit number - I do not see any language that indicates point values.

Unless my math is wrong, I believe I can SftS with all the listed units and still be under half my total army units and under half the PL of the army.

You're waaaay under the power level cap yeah. I honestly don't know where i got the 50% of points rule from....... ...... ......

Kdash wrote:
You're waaaay under the power level cap yeah. I honestly don't know where i got the 50% of points rule from....... ...... ......

No worries. The game is in a lot of flux nowadays with these FAQs, Chapter Approved, eta.

Not sure I am that jazzed with the second list, but it isn't a major tweak from my other lists. I think I am in the right general area to start testing it out... now to just build and paint it.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Kdash wrote:
You're waaaay under the power level cap yeah. I honestly don't know where i got the 50% of points rule from....... ...... ......

No worries. The game is in a lot of flux nowadays with these FAQs, Chapter Approved, eta.

Not sure I am that jazzed with the second list, but it isn't a major tweak from my other lists. I think I am in the right general area to start testing it out... now to just build and paint it.

Which bits are you not entirely happy with? We might be able to work out some options.

Kdash wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Kdash wrote:
You're waaaay under the power level cap yeah. I honestly don't know where i got the 50% of points rule from....... ...... ......

No worries. The game is in a lot of flux nowadays with these FAQs, Chapter Approved, eta.

Not sure I am that jazzed with the second list, but it isn't a major tweak from my other lists. I think I am in the right general area to start testing it out... now to just build and paint it.

Which bits are you not entirely happy with? We might be able to work out some options.

Mostly just Shrike! I might tinker with a tooled up Captain instead. Which is fine. Means I have a lot of fun Character modelling opportunities.