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This story starts out evaluating a list I want to run - 6 Razorbacks with Las + Twin Plas. As I was looking a buying the razorbacks and FW turrets, I thought to myself "Hmm, Las + Twin Plas is a index only option. Am I going to spend like $100 on turrets that might be unusable at any time?".

Then, as I was talking it over with others, the conversation switched. Lets forget index only turrets for a moment - is buying Razorbacks and Rhinos a good idea? The writing on the wall is pretty much that Primaris will eventually replace normal space marines, and Primaris can't use anything but a Repulsor. So if I want to use my new transports for 2 or 3 years, are Razorbacks / Rhinos a bad idea?

What are your thoughts dakka? Are index only options safe? Are non primaris options safe?

I would stay away from index-only options at this time. Non-primaris options are MUCH safer.

Endgame wrote:
The writing on the wall is pretty much that Primaris will eventually replace normal space marines, and Primaris can't use anything but a Repulsor.

This is not true at all.

Endgame wrote:
The writing on the wall is pretty much that Primaris will eventually replace normal space marines,

'Eventually' being the most important word in your post.

Space Marines aren't going anywhere. Maybe in 20-30 years Primaris kits will outnumber oldmarines, but in 2-3, you'll be fine.

I honestly wish they had just released Primaris and made them better than smol-marines immediately by giving them the tactical flexibility of tactical squads on Intercessors, the melee options of vanguard veterans on Inceptors, and the transport options (albeit with a caveat of bulky like termies) so they could ride in everything that a Terminator could.

Who cares about marine player tears, amirite? Swol > Smol

Non-Primaris marines days probably are numbered, but that number is probably very large. Could easily be a couple of thousand or more. So I wouldn't get too antsy about it. You'll have gone off the hobby, or at least the army, before the squat-marines get squatted completely.

Razorbacks are definitely safe, I think.

If people keep buying them, GW will keep selling and supporting them.

If people stop buying them because they think GW are going to squat them, GW will notice the fall in sales and reduce support. The reduced support will lead to lower sales, which will lead to reduced support, which will lead to lower sales, which will lead (eventually) to squatting them.

I would just avoid space marines all together. Sell the lot of them - play Xenos.

Depends on how you view your investment.

1) Yes, Primaris will be replacing normal space marines in the foreseeable future. It's unlikely you'll have any non-Primaris space marine releases again (outside of HH and perhaps the occasional special characters).

2) This doesn't mean that normal space marine vehicles, units, etc. are going to disappear anytime soon. You're probably looking at another 5-10 years before unit entries begin to disappear (tied to older plastic kits finally being retired etc.)

3) For 'Matched Play' events like tournaments I do think you're likely going to see an eventual stop the Index-based units that they're kinda/sorta grandfathering in at the moment. I think there will be a simple "suggestion" in a while and tournaments will follow suit. So buying Index-only options is probably the most risky thing you can do. However they'll always be playable amongst friends so this depends entirely on your gaming environment. I'd never turn down someone running something like that if they wanted to.

4) Due to #3 above...magnetize. Go with a different company which sets up their resin materials to magnetize (Blood and Skulls Industries on eBay or Kromlech, etc.). No point in buying Forgeworld limited stuff.

5) Razorbacks in general will be safe, since no one is using them to transport stuff anyway, they're just relatively cost-efficient "mini" tanks which are excluded from the rule-of-three ---- much in the same way Eldar players bring Wave Serpents more often than Falcons, etc.

So you'll be able to play with your normal marines for years. However, if you're already buying Primaris stuff that's a decision you'll have to make. If you have a unit of normal space marines you love and want to use Rhinos for them, go for it. Primaris vehicles will likely never carry normal marines, and vice versa. Just don't gripe if in a year the next Primaris wave brings out more goodies.

Gw is in too deep to squat spacemarines for primaris. They tried the splash of primaris releases at the start of 8th and sales didn't go as expected from what I have heard,(take as much salt qith this as your doctor will allow you as its pieced together form various places)
Primaris did big volume as the new hotness but didn't stay at that level, sales dropped quite quickly faster than GW expected, CA price cuts helped sales again but still not the expected marines always sell marines 2.0 will sell even better.
Deathwatch could be the codex that really does start to make primaris shift in volume over the older models.

This is where you need even more salt, apparently the primaris line was cut shorter than planned due to sales volume being so far below projections that the business case for investing more money into the line wasn't profitable enough. I suspect as primaris models shift (rules becoming even more biased) GW will revisit the unreleased units but I thing they didn't get the reaction thwy expected and the focus is on other factions for now.

They aren't going to squat the vehicles. They will squat the old marines, or at least make all marines primaris grade and allow them to go into the transports.

I dont expect normal marines to get squashed any time soon.
I do however expect no NEW normal marines to come out.

And yes Index only options are unsafe

Standard issue marine options are very likely safe. I wouldn't get too deep into the weird index stuff.

But I do more than half expect a new marine chapter comprised completely of primaris marines out sometime this edition.

we can start a pool of guesses for the chapter name now; my vote is 'the emperor's fancy lads"

I don’t see GW designing new units for SM. To me that’s as good as dead.

There's gonna be a second wave.

Primaris ancients, gravis captains and generic lieutenants are still only available in the starter sets.

Once those have separate releases will I say primaris are done for a bit. Which I expect a melee specialist, an anti-tank specialist( probably melta variant hellblasters), grav bikes(think cawl dusted off the ole grav tech for just the Repulsor?) And hopefully something along the lines of terminators that actually feel powerful.

I bet Reivers were what GW thought up for melee specialists though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and either a rhino variant or land raider variant depending on what the Repulsor is supposed to be. Part of me wants it to be the rhino so we can have an absolutely massive transport hahaha

 fraser1191 wrote:
There's gonna be a second wave.

Primaris ancients, gravis captains and generic lieutenants are still only available in the starter sets.

Once those have separate releases will I say primaris are done for a bit. Which I expect a melee specialist, an anti-tank specialist( probably melta variant hellblasters), grav bikes(think cawl dusted off the ole grav tech for just the Repulsor?) And hopefully something along the lines of terminators that actually feel powerful.

I bet Reivers were what GW thought up for melee specialists though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and either a rhino variant or land raider variant depending on what the Repulsor is supposed to be. Part of me wants it to be the rhino so we can have an absolutely massive transport hahaha

you're assuming the repulsor isn't the razorback

BrianDavion wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
There's gonna be a second wave.

Primaris ancients, gravis captains and generic lieutenants are still only available in the starter sets.

Once those have separate releases will I say primaris are done for a bit. Which I expect a melee specialist, an anti-tank specialist( probably melta variant hellblasters), grav bikes(think cawl dusted off the ole grav tech for just the Repulsor?) And hopefully something along the lines of terminators that actually feel powerful.

I bet Reivers were what GW thought up for melee specialists though


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and either a rhino variant or land raider variant depending on what the Repulsor is supposed to be. Part of me wants it to be the rhino so we can have an absolutely massive transport hahaha

you're assuming the repulsor isn't the razorback

Ooooo that's genious because a land raider has 3x the amount of guns as a razorback now I'm excited!

 Primark G wrote:
I don’t see GW designing new units for SM. To me that’s as good as dead.

And this is really the most important and logical way to look at it. As I state in my post, they won't just randomly disappear...but if you're buying a new normal Space Marine army at this point, you need to realistically plan on not receiving any newly designed units again. If you like the current Space Marine line, then go nuts - but don't invest in them planning to receive new kits. That won't be happening with very few possible exceptions.

Las/plas is not a great loadout tbh, I would go twin asscans...