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With the rule of 3, I am no longer able to field the army I have owned ever since I started playing. The battlewagon model was one of my reasons to start the game, so my first 2000 points included a whooping four of them - three heavy support choices and one as dedicated transport for a unit of nobz (special rule in 5th). Later in 7th when the supplement that shall not be named was released, GW even tried to coax ork players into buying a 5th battlewagon to get the scout special rule on them all. With the rule of 3 pretty much anyone who ever fielded a BW army is now sitting on one or two wagons he or she can no longer field.

They are far too expensive and do to little on their own to spam to a degree where they would cause trouble (like PBC or tyrants). Even if you buy every weapon upgrade possible, your average razorback will outgun it, and I don't think the codex will change that.
So I was thinking, battlewagons' main job is transporting orks, so why not make them dedicated transports? That would allow armies that were fielding four or five wagons in the past to work again, increasing variety without actually causing balance issues.

Thoughts?

If not Dedicated Transports, then they damn well should be able to squadroned like Leman Russes.

SQUADRONS FOR EVERYONE BUT MARINES AND ELDAR!

 Jidmah wrote:
With the rule of 3, I am no longer able to field the army I have owned ever since I started playing. The battlewagon model was one of my reasons to start the game, so my first 2000 points included a whooping four of them - three heavy support choices and one as dedicated transport for a unit of nobz (special rule in 5th). Later in 7th when the supplement that shall not be named was released, GW even tried to coax ork players into buying a 5th battlewagon to get the scout special rule on them all. With the rule of 3 pretty much anyone who ever fielded a BW army is now sitting on one or two wagons he or she can no longer field.

They are far too expensive and do to little on their own to spam to a degree where they would cause trouble (like PBC or tyrants). Even if you buy every weapon upgrade possible, your average razorback will outgun it, and I don't think the codex will change that.
So I was thinking, battlewagons' main job is transporting orks, so why not make them dedicated transports? That would allow armies that were fielding four or five wagons in the past to work again, increasing variety without actually causing balance issues.

Thoughts?

Of course, at least as an option for nobs, hardboyz and characters ...

Should absolutely be dedicated transports for Nobz (eavy armored and mega) and Flash Gitz. The gitz really need a proper wagon for protection so they can do their thing while both of these units benefit from having lots of transport space with all those ammo runt bullet sponges they can take.

While I'm going to assume its not intentional, its still quite a dirty move to have 7th edition formations often be about large numbers of the same unit and then have 8th saying you can't spam the a lot of the same units.

Better yet, move Weirdboyz to the DT slot.

 JohnU wrote:
Better yet, move Weirdboyz to the DT slot.

Oh that's a low blow.

I'm all for battlewagons being Dedicated Transports and don't think it would cause them to be problematic. I had four before Blitz Brigade was a thing, then bought another for the formation and now I've got two that I won't be able to use except for unusually large games. Being able to take them in squadrons would also suffice as that's an issue that plagues many other units (Onager Dunecrawlers, Predators and Vindicators come to mind) and would also somewhat keep the spirit of the formation alive.

Well, GW has a record for screwing people over with the advent of a new edition. People who bought excessive amounts of certain models (e.g: Battlewagon, Hellbrutes, Drop Pods, etc.) may have problems now. Either these formations no longer exist or the option to field the unit in question in a high number is not feasible anymore.
I wonder what people will do with all their conscript spam when 9th comes around. Probability is high that this cannon fodder unit will be back in it´s proper place.

I could see a battlewagon used for a nobz mob as a dedicated transport because it is such a high status symbol for the Orks. Other then that the humble trukk should remain the only dedicated transport.

Nobz and Flashgits (who are nobz) I'd agree to the rest came with trukks for a long time.. As for squadrons I wouldn't include BWs Nauts and Stompa all the rest should have squadrons allowing good old fashioned orky spam.

The rule of 3 ONLY applies to Tournament Play, not regular games.
You aren't going to win Tournament games with ANY amount of Battlewagons, so it shouldn't affect you.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Well, GW has a record for screwing people over with the advent of a new edition. People who bought excessive amounts of certain models (e.g: Battlewagon, Hellbrutes, Drop Pods, etc.) may have problems now. Either these formations no longer exist or the option to field the unit in question in a high number is not feasible anymore.
I wonder what people will do with all their conscript spam when 9th comes around. Probability is high that this cannon fodder unit will be back in it´s proper place.

I could see a battlewagon used for a nobz mob as a dedicated transport because it is such a high status symbol for the Orks. Other then that the humble trukk should remain the only dedicated transport.

9th? Why that's relevant? Conscripts are already waste of points

One temporary solution for people wanting to run more than three Battlewagons might be to run the Battlewagon with Supa Kannon from Forge World. It's not a great solution, but it's something.

I have mixed feelings about making the Battlewagon a dedicated transport. I think it's partly because the Battlewagon is highly customizable and can be built to fulfill different roles, some of which don't seem like they fit as dedicated transports.

In my mind there are two broad categories of Battlewagon:
Type 1: Battle Taxi - Usually a pretty basic, stripped down Battlewagon who's job is to get big and/or expensive assault units across the battlefield quickly and safely.
Type 2a: Mobile Fortress - A tough shooting platform for fragile Ork shooting units.
Type 2b: Gunboat - A vehicle loaded down with tons of dakka that is a dangerous shooting unit in its own right.

I have a Type 2a and 2b because they are fairly similar in use and in fact one Battlewagon can be built to fulfill both roles.

Maybe they could have two data sheets, one regular "Battlewagon" that wouldn't have as many options and is a dedicated transport, and a "Kustom Battlewagon" that has a lot more options and upgrades and takes up a Heavy Support slot.

I really like Ork tanks. I've got seven Battlewagons (not counting my ancient one that's the size of a Trukk). I'd like to run 4-5 in my main Bad Moons list. I've got a Big Trakk that works thematically in the same list, but Forge World isn't an option for many people. Like most Ork vehicles Battlewagons need fixing. There's a lot of different ways they could improve them, and I'm excited to see what they do in the Codex. I just hope they remember that there are us Bad Moon and Death Skullz players out there and don't gear everything heavily towards a Goff playstyle.

Yea Battlewagons should be dedicated transports.

Here's hoping for a fix in the codex!

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The rule of 3 ONLY applies to Tournament Play, not regular games.
You aren't going to win Tournament games with ANY amount of Battlewagons, so it shouldn't affect you.

We already have an ork list with two BW placing second in an ITC tournament, and the codex is on its way.
Not to mention the the rule of 3 is widely accepted into non-tournament games as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:

Type 2a: Mobile Fortress - A tough shooting platform for fragile Ork shooting units.
Type 2b: Gunboat - A vehicle loaded down with tons of dakka that is a dangerous shooting unit in its own right.

I have a Type 2a and 2b because they are fairly similar in use and in fact one Battlewagon can be built to fulfill both roles.

I understand your concern, but I think your are overestimating what battlewagons actually can do. For 2a the trukk is currently the better choice, since it's more durable per point. Two trukks will do a better job at protecting 20 tankbustas than one battlewagon - and cost the same. Since trukks are not causing a problem as dedicated transports, I don't think wagons will either.

As for 2b, the gun boat doesn't qualify as a "dangerous shooting unit" at all. Let's say we go all out and put 4 rokkit launchers, 1 kannon and 1 killkannon on the wagon we get an average of one hit to actually go past armor. Razorbacks or wave serpents (and probably some other DT) do very similar damage, while cost a lot less. Eldar players have found wave serpents to be too
expensive to spam, and they cost a lot less than dakka wagons.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
One temporary solution for people wanting to run more than three Battlewagons might be to run the Battlewagon with Supa Kannon from Forge World. It's not a great solution, but it's something.

That's actually good advice. If the rule of 3 is going to persist I guess fielding them as supa-kannon or liftadroppas is better than not fielding them.

Add wings to 2 battlewagons and get a dakkajet and a burna bomber.

Their main reason is to transport. Hell that flying tank thing the primaris have has more fire power and that's a dedicated transport!

 koooaei wrote:
Add wings to 2 battlewagons and get a dakkajet and a burna bomber.

That would be a looted storm raven.

I now want to see that conversion.

I'd totally play against it.

People say that an Ork can make anything fly if they believe but they are wrong. An ork will always only think something that looks aerodynamic will fly. It's the space marines who can some how make anything fly.

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Add wings to 2 battlewagons and get a dakkajet and a burna bomber.

That would be a looted storm raven.

Not quite.

 JohnU wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Add wings to 2 battlewagons and get a dakkajet and a burna bomber.

That would be a looted storm raven.

Not quite.

Spoiler:

BEST COMMENT OF THE DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 JohnU wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Add wings to 2 battlewagons and get a dakkajet and a burna bomber.

That would be a looted storm raven.

Not quite.

Spoiler:

You're right. It looks better than a storm raven.