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Hi!

So this came up and has come up before, but I figured I'd finally consult the hive mind. I have two examples on removing the base from a model mid game to make it fit somewhere and how that interacts with wobbly model (if it does).

Example 1: My Catachan mortor team manages to run across the board to charge two onager dunecrawlers to tie them up. They make it in and get within 1 inch of the two dunecrawlers. One of them has his back to a ruin and has no way of getting ooc. The other one is in an open ruin where he can move a bit, but he can not get outside of 1 inch if he stays on his base. In the corner of that ruin there is a bit of elevated terrain where he could fit his base on and thus get outside of 1inch of my models, but if he did his base would be looking like this / , but not at such a high angle. The point is that his base is now not entirely on a surface and the middle of it is hovering in the air. I had questions on the legality of this movement and if the base of a model can be at such odd angles. In addition he told me he could just not put his onager on the base it comes with in which case his dunecrawler would fit fine. I don't like conflict so I let it slide.To paint a picture the dunecrawler kinda looks like a person would if they were doing a high kick into the air while keeping one foot on the ground.

After that he wanted to shoot said dunecrawler at my tank. I pointed out that it had no LoS on the tank due to terrain. He agreed so then he turned its gun up into the air so that it could draw line of sight. This I did contest and insisted that I would let him do that in the movement phase, but not the shooting as he has already finished moving his models. Is there consensus on modifying your model mid game in such a way? I mean I think it is fine to do in the movement phase in the same way you would move the turret mount of a leman russ, but after the movement? Yeah I aint feeling it.

So my question from that is if you model comes with a base do you need to give it a base? My thought is that if the model has a base (and does not instruct you otherwise) that you measure to and from the base when determining ranges. Because the model is supplied with a base I figure the intent was to put the dunecrawler on its base.


Furthermore if your model does have a base does it need to be flat on a surface? I saw this happen in another game where a tyranid carnifex was trying to attack a unit on the 2nd floor of a ruin. Obviously it can not come into base to base with it so the tyranid player just turned the model on its side to where the carnifiex was on it's side and its base was running parallel up the building to get within 1 inch. Is that legal? I mean the rules don't say you can't do that, but the rules are permissive by nature. The rules tell you to move your model, but never specifically says how you have to move it and where the base has to be.

Example 2: I am playing Dark Eldar and go to move my venom on top of a house designated to count as a ruin. It has the movement to make it to the spot I want, but if I keep the model on it's base it will fall off due to the incline of the roof. If I take the model off of its base it will sit fine. Can you legally place a model where it's base won't sit at all? I know wobbly model can be applied to where a model could fit, but may risk falling off, but here this venom has no ability to stand on the roof if it stays on the base. So much like before is it legal to take a mode off of it base to make it fit? Should you just declare wobbly model because it could sit without the base?
Furthermore I had a flier that wanted to land on the very top of a building. Exact same situation. Without the base it will sit and balance fine, but with the base it will fall off.

Edit: Another question that occurred to me. Say you have a Leman Russ tank. Can you place it to where instead of it being on its treads that it is popping a wheely and driving around with its belly exposed? Please tell me this is impossible.

The rules don't allow you to do it, so you can't. The only permission you have is Wobbly Model Syndrome, you can't alter a model mid game.

There was a thread about someone altering a Basilisk's Gun between turns, same answer.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Edit: Another question that occurred to me. Say you have a Leman Russ tank. Can you place it to where instead of it being on its treads that it is popping a wheely and driving around with its belly exposed? Please tell me this is impossible.

As for this, this is indeed allowed. You only have to place your model on the table (or Invoke WMS), nothing in the rules dictate how you put the models down. You can put your Leman Russes on their sides if you want for all the game cares. Whether your opponent will agree is another matter, people tend to have a bad reaction to people utilising the rules in ways they don't like.

I don't know of any requirement that models must have a base. The rules assume you do, usually, since they require base to base measurement. But tanks and such don't have bases and are measured to the hull.

So the way I see it, if the model starts the game with a base of X size, then the model must keep that base for the rest of the game. Otherwise I could pull the base off of my dunecrawler mid turn to get out of charge range for example. But then put it back to gain a range advantage. As you can see, the real problem is inconsistency.
But, if you played the dunecrawler without a base I think that is fine, but then you treat it like a tank (measuring to the hull) for all shooting and charges and such. The difference is minute, and so long as things are consistent throughout the game there shouldn't be an issue.

As BCB said, you can place models however you like. But if you remove the base from your venom then you are altering the model. Wobbly model dictates that you may place the model elsewhere but when targeting it you must hold it in its spot where it technically is. So you can take off the stand to keep it there to mark the spot, but if you use it, or your opponent targets it, you must replace the base and hold it there for measuring purposes.

Now for the LOS issue, you don't measure from the gun, you measure from the hull. From the designer's commentary:

Q: When a model does not have a base, as is the case with many vehicles, what exactly is the ‘hull’ of the model?
A: The hull of these models refers to the main body of the model. It does not include things such as turrets, sponsons, aerials, banners, spikes etc. If there is still doubt, we recommend both players agree about what constitutes the hull of such models before the battle begins.

So unless you agree that guns are part of the hull beforehand, you can't turn the gun to get LOS.

You measure RANGE from the Hull or Base. LOS is any part of the model, not the Hull or Base.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Warhammer_40000_Stepping_into_a_New_Edition_of_Warhammer_40000.pdf

Q: How do I determine if a model is visible to another model?
A: The models are visible to each other if you can draw a straight, uninterrupted line between any part of one model to any part of the other.

That's why you can shoot flyers, you measure range to the base, but measure LOS to any part of the physical model, base included. Otherwise a half inch lip would block LOS to anything on standard height bases.

The reason the person wanted to manipulate the basilisk gun is because of the LOS thing for their heavy bolters.

Ah, right. Disregard the last statement then.