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Scott-S6 wrote: That 40K really doesn't work well as a skirmish game?
Basically this.
And even 500pts is a lot more than what I would call skirmish.
7th ed. Kill Team rules were basically 40K where each model was its own unit + some army building restrictions. It wasn't very good, especially when compared to Herald of Ruins which was very close to the normal 40K ruleset, but took the extra mile to fix the most major issues the ruleset had when moving to such a small scale.
Too many Games Workshop games in general. 40k, Age Of Sigmar, Horus Heresy, Shadespire, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Kill Team, Shadow War: Armageddon, The Hobbit, and now Titanicus. And Space Hulk? I hear that's a thing.
I can agree with this, honestly they just need to roll in all into a single skirmish game, like how heralds of ruin worked in 7th. Which BTW if you never check it out, check out HoR 7th ed, basiclly was mordhime for 40k.
40k, Age Of Sigmar, Horus Heresy, Shadespire, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, Kill Team, Shadow War: Armageddon, The Hobbit, and now Titanicus. And Space Hulk? I hear that's a thing.
Depends on how you look at it.
We have the base games: Warhammer 40.000 and Age of Sigmar. Hard to say they are skirmish games due to how large they are. Only Skirmish if you play Custodes really.
Then you have Horus Heresy which is technically just different campaign era of Warhammer 40.000(ie. no xenos). The problem is that they've now diverged as Horus Heresy didn't jump to 8th with the rest. Otherwise technically these would have been the same games with different campaign. If they would move HH to 8th edition ruleset then two would become one for the most part.
Blood Bowl is a board game and not a skirmish game and is aiming at a very different type of game experience. It wouldn't be "too many skirmish games" unless you want to argue that Fantasy Flight is making too many board games.
Necromunda is perhaps the first real skirmish game. I wouldn't count Shadespire. It's really just its own thing. Kill Team would be the next real skirmish game. Can't really count Shadow War as we haven't seen much support for that and it feels like it was designed as an interim measure for Necromunda and the new Kill Team.
The Hobbit is one of the games I could say overlaps a bit AoS(due to the fantasy theme), but that was designed as a movie tie-in and I think they can't easily back out of that one. It's kinda hard to count that one as it doesn't receive the same attention as their other lines.
Titanicus is an interesting beast and it will depend on where they will take this before I can judge.
Space Hulk is not a Skirmish game. More of a straight up boardgame unless you consider Hero Quest or Descent(by FFG) to be Skirmish games.
I think the thing is is that Games Workshop is very likely aiming to become an all-out boardgame developer much like Fantasy Flight Games. Already FFG are making inroads into the Skirmish game, have a solid line of boardgames, and also now card games as well as roleplaying games. Games Workshop most likely see FFG as what they could have been if they hadn't dragged their arse for all those years. Looking at all these small boardgames they've released over the years it at least feels like they want to become something more.
My guess is they are just capitalizing on their renewed popularity and throwing every idea they can at the wall to see what sticks. They'll just drop whatever doesn't bring in enough money to keep alive. They're probably hoping at least one of the 'skirmish' level games is board-gamey enough to draw the board-gaming crowd into it and maybe into their whole skirmish line.
A lot of non-40k players like the lore and models, but don't want to devote the time to a ton of models and painting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 21:10:52
Our club just had a great mini tourney of 40k in 40 mins
400pts
No more than 40 models
Nothing with more than 10 Wounds
1 patrol detachment
1 WL trait
1 Relic
Only the 3 Starts out of the rulebook
Special missions
great fun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 21:20:08
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
The main issue is that they can't be in business unless they expand.
People complain that they have too many factions and too many games, but if they had neither they would be selling the same old models to a stale player base that already has most of the models. They would eventually just die and become consumed by another studio that would then either do the same mistake or expand.
This is business 101 in a nutshell.
Besides, I am not sure what's the downside of them expanding.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/12 23:30:33
Backspacehacker wrote: I can agree with this, honestly they just need to roll in all into a single skirmish game, like how heralds of ruin worked in 7th. Which BTW if you never check it out, check out HoR 7th ed, basiclly was mordhime for 40k.
GW is spreading them selves to thin.
Nonsense if they just keep making rules sets a few are going to be balanced by sheer chance,
Adeptus Doritos wrote: Are we in here actually whining that there's too many options on the shelf?
Is that what we're doing?
I just want to be sure.
Not sure if its whining about having too many options but I personally do wonder why GW seems to want to churn out a lot of "board games" but then seem to not support them or show any interest in keeping them relevant. One off board games are fine and dandy but the nature of GW's products (unpainted and unassembled plastic miniatures on sprues) means that there is quite the time investment to get the game to an operational state (bare minimal being assembled but preferably with some sort of basic paint job). By the time you have your squad ready to play the hype has fallen off and its difficult to find people to play with or continue to play with if the rule set is mediocre. GW also doesn't seem to really promote the game's mechanics very well and instead focus on the models which might sell to their modeling audience, or those seeing a boxed game as a discount bundle for their 40k/AoS army, but the more board game types might not be as interested in the models. Most board games don't have you painting your own models and with only light to moderate assembly while I would think most board gamers care a bit more about the gameplay experience than just having pretty models. The recent announcement of Rogue Trader had me scratching my head wondering why there is another "skirmish" game when we have Necromunda, Shadow War, and soon a new version of Kill Team on the way. Options are nice but it also dilutes the waters a bit and makes it hard to tell if its something worth investing time, money, and effort into or its gonna be something that comes and goes before anybody really has a painted up team/squad/whatever.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
I don't agree with the notion that there's too many games.
1. Having 80 side-games doesn't actually hurt or detract from the main games in any way. AoS and 40K are both getting regular model releases and rules updates in a reasonable time frame.
2. 40K and AoS are both garbage, utterly garbage games when played at the skirmish level. Anything below 1000 points basically breaks down when you're trying to play at any level beyond teaching newbies how to play.
3. Skirmish games provide a way for GW to release new models and new fluff without stepping on the toes of the main games by trying to shoe-horn all these new models into pre-existing armies. We've got a plethora of cool new stuff thanks to Necromunda, Titanicus, Rogue Trader etc but there's no confusion about how RT units are balanced in Necromunda games or how Necromunda units function in 40k etc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 02:23:51
And even 500pts is a lot more than what I would call skirmish.
How many points would a skirmish be then?
To me a skirmish game must involve <10 models per side, so it's quick to play, and it's relatively easy to keep track of status/alternate activation/special rules from the campaign progression.
Horde armies can have a bit more, especially if they have multi-model units (like a unit of 3-5 termagants).
Basically a leader, a couple special guys, and around 5 basic models.
To me a skirmish game must involve <10 models per side, so it's quick to play, and it's relatively easy to keep track of status/alternate activation/special rules from the campaign progression.
Horde armies can have a bit more, especially if they have multi-model units (like a unit of 3-5 termagants).
So is that they key then? Single model units and alternate activation?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/13 13:11:36
Eldarsif wrote: Besides, I am not sure what's the downside of them expanding.
Certain people seem to take it as a personal affront when GW releases something they're not interested in instead of the thing they want (no matter how improbable).
If only they'd not brought back necromunda we could have had a big Malal themed CSM release (or some other nonsense).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Apple Peel wrote: I’ve never played Rogue Trader, but from what I have read, isn’t it just a mild D&D with 40K? Wouldn’t that make it a RPG?
No, it was very much a wargame. Imperial Assault is more of an RPG than RT was.
The only rpg like element was some of the wacky mission ideas, some of which needed a 3rd party to make them work.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/13 13:30:01
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
