Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I recently had the pleasure of getting dismembered by a Dark Eldar, highly mobile Red Grief/Flayed Skull army. My opponent used a Void Raven Bomber and a large unit of Reavers (via Strategem) to deal MW and get a T1 charge with the bikes. He killed half my marines on T1, denied me deep striking (in my own zone) because half his army was already across the board (thanks, Beta Rules ). My initial strategy was to deploy in transports (to try and get T1) and shoot his few visible threats-- this was a mistake. I had deployed aggressively thinking I wanted to be in a position T1 to charge/counter charge myself knowing his army was mobile and going to be in my face quickly-- this was a mistake. Question is-- knowing that vs this type of list, which I'm afraid I'll see a lot, is mobile, but also an initial low model count army that might go first (but is mostly out of LOS on T1 anyway), would a "denied flank"-- putting my army in a corner, and placing infantry about 3" in front of my main force to deny him the opportunity to move over units and get his initial MW off-- be better?

Pros: Generally, I know putting "bubble wrap" far enough in front of the force to deny deep strikes, but also deny consolidation is the tried and true strategy, but otherwise I think having a smaller "elite army" and the two units dealing the MW before I can even move is too much of a threat and this would prevent that.

Cons: He could still probably T1 charge my bubble wrap and consolidate into the bodies behind (but I can also fall back and shoot). It would also pin me in a corner-- and while I have reserves and transports-- depending on the mission that might not work in my favor.

Or what strategy would you use to fight a list like this?

What did you do to counter any close combat Alpha Strike army from before the FAQ? Do that.

Only difference is you know exactly where the Reavers are coming from because they start on the board, and you shouldn't leave a huge gap between your screen and your valuable units for the Reavers to land in.

For some reason a lot of people are leaving good tactics behind (like screens) because of the deep strike change. That comfort blanket GW handed people isn't universal, you still have to pay attention during deployment and the first turn.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:
What did you do to counter any close combat Alpha Strike army from before the FAQ? Do that.

Only difference is you know exactly where the Reavers are coming from because they start on the board, and you shouldn't leave a huge gap between your screen and your valuable units for the Reavers to land in.

For some reason a lot of people are leaving good tactics behind (like screens) because of the deep strike change. That comfort blanket GW handed people isn't universal, you still have to pay attention during deployment and the first turn.

I don't think this has as much to do with the FAQ as it does vs the Drukhari codex. However, had the Beta DS rules not have been in effect, I would have DS behind him (since his entire army moved up) and targeted the biggest threat. But prior to the Drukhari Codex-- I hadn't faced an army that is absolutely able to T1 charge without fail. Prior to their codex, when facing Drukhari or a similar style army, I would set up crucial units farther back into my zone and deploy a counter charge behind my initial screen. But I think (I'd have to get my table out and measure it, in anything but H&A deployment, Red Grief can get a charge off no matter how far back I deploy). So it's really a question of, how do I mitigate that? The saltiness regarding the Beta Rules was really tongue-in-cheek.

But it sounds like you may agree that the denied flank would work against this army? Or am I misunderstanding?

The longest range Reavers can have is 30-40 inches depending on charge roll, and assuming your opponent gives them Hypex (I usually give them Painbringer to keep them alive long enough for the Wyches to get stuck in). So depending on the mission deployment. The move/advance max is 28 inches with Hypex if you want to avoid flyover.
Reavers don't hit super hard in CC, their best use is tying stuff up until actual combat units get there in turn 2.

Best case scenario from the Dark Eldar players point of view is a flyover of a screen which wipes them out, then charging a shooting unit and doing minimal damage in the fight phase, then piling in to surround one model so you can't fall back. Multiply x2 or 3 depending on how many Reaver units there are. Then second turn, splinter weapons and disintegrators wipe the back line units while Wyches/Hellions/Succubi/Grots engage the units the Reavers were pinning down.

The lynchpin for that scenario is getting the flyover of the screening chaff units. So figuring out that range and then screening right at the point where he has to charge your screen, rather than flyover, really buys you an extra shooting turn and a counterattack opportunity.
Refused flank is a good idea, but it's really all about knowing the ranges. Lining up on the boarder of your deployment zone likely won't be a good result for you. Sitting 4-6 inches back might be all you need to thwart that good Dark Eldar combo.

 Creeping Dementia wrote:


Best case scenario from the Dark Eldar players point of view is a flyover of a screen which wipes them out, then charging a shooting unit and doing minimal damage in the fight phase, then piling in to surround one model so you can't fall back. Multiply x2 or 3 depending on how many Reaver units there are. Then second turn, splinter weapons and disintegrators wipe the back line units while Wyches/Hellions/Succubi/Grots engage the units the Reavers were pinning down.

I'll do you one better. Flyover the screen, use strategem to wipe the unit with MW, fire darklight into the target (a razorback full of bros), charge and deal grav-talon MW, surround it completely, deal the last two wounds and deny the occupants a chance to deploy. Three units down in one turn-- effectively 20 wounds of models gone in a single turn.

I agree with the rest of your assessment.