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Hi there fellow members =)

I have ben pondering what tanks to get when i expand my artillery army with some new tanks.
Playing artillery is kinda fun but i think going tanks is more action =)

My army right now is getting close to 3000p (8 troop squads, 3 grenadier squads, 3 engineer squads, 25 riders, 2 hades, 3 hellhounds, 3x earthshakers, 4 heavy mortars, 4 thudds, carde, commisars, hq squads, chimeras and heavy wpns team as well).

Being a fw AND dkok freak i want to stay put and keep using fw tanks =)

I seldom compete and if i do its learning money, most games are with friends and/or locals at the club.
Most games are around 2000p

That being said, do any of you have some suggestions for adding some tonnage to my army?

I have been thinking of one of three following alternatives:
1. 3x Annihilator and 1x Macharus Vulcan
2. 3x Annihilator and 3x Demolisher- OR 3x Executioner
3. 2x Annihilator, 2x Demolisher and 2x Executioner

Been reading some forum posts and some say go full squads (3), some say mix tanks and some say that IF you have 3+ tanks you are better investing in a superheavy. Guess its up to doctrine and preferred style but it is always interesting to hear opinions

Im a fan of the Macharius Vulcan and Leman Russ Annihilator both, though the basic LRBT is a solid all rounder and the Krieg Mars Alpha pattern version is an awesome model.

The demolisher is somewhat less enthusing

I second the vote for the Krieg Mars Alpha pattern Russ. It's one of my favourite models, and the rules for the Conquerer variant are really really good.

Thanks for your comments lads :>

I like the Vulcan, its fairly good stats and it's point cost makes it solid.
Although i tend to play more of what i like to see, not its stats and the Vanquiser looks darn cool imo

Annihilators seem to be very interesting and its a tank that isn't that common, something i like :>
Demolisher is well, they aren't bad but you see them kinda often and i want to use more odd things

So i think my order will be something like this:
1x Macharus Vulcan or the Vanquiser, having a hard time here, stats vs good looking
2x Annihilators
2x Mars Alpha pattern

Would i be stretching it to add another of each russ bringing the number upp to 3 each, i mean is it "worth it", regardless about the cost.
Or perhaps add two other russes to the bag instead?

Since i haven't played IG/AM with tanks thus far and only read some, i still don't know if its good to max out each slot or spread more various tanks :p

leffegnu wrote:
Although i tend to play more of what i like to see, not its stats and the Vanquiser looks darn cool imo

Unfortunately it's also utter trash. Unless you hate winning and love throwing away lots of money on models that guarantee a loss the vulcan version is the only one that's even potentially worth using. FW didn't bother to update the rules when the IG codex arrived, so now most of the FW superheavies are trash.

Yeah, i know it sucks big time

Good thing is that have the weekend to make up my mind of what i want
I have a 2000p game Saturday and perhaps things get more clear after that :>

Sad that FW don't put in more effort in their "software" and update their units parallell with GW.
Considering their price tag for items it should not be that much to ask for. Even its been the same story for some time now

Personally i doubt any dkok players seriously tries to compete but having some stuff working would be nice.
Not even allowing our engineers go with the hades atm is sad face all over.

Thanks once more for all input

Consider the Malcador Defender - 7, iirc, heavy bolters is not to be sniffed at for horde clearance. Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

It's not. Consider the LR Punisher, which has 16 "heavy bolters" for a cheaper point cost.

 Peregrine wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

It's not. Consider the LR Punisher, which has 16 "heavy bolters" for a cheaper point cost.

DKoK can't take them though unless you start with the soup shenanigins.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

It's not. Consider the LR Punisher, which has 16 "heavy bolters" for a cheaper point cost.

DKoK can't take them though unless you start with the soup shenanigins.

Which i am not going to do
I play dkok for the joy of it. Same goes for all of my armies.
I enjoy playing in tournaments from time to time as well but thats more for the learning experience; not wining at all cost.

Thank you all for all comments and thoughts lads, i really appreciate it =)

Will make my buy later today and the Malcador Defender have gone under my "radar" i must say.
Perhaps thats a more legitimate purchase considering i am just getting my first tanks. Going for a Macharius could w8 a month or two till i feel its time to step up a bit more

Will instabuy the Gorgon when it reapers so another order is hopefully not that far away

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

It's not. Consider the LR Punisher, which has 16 "heavy bolters" for a cheaper point cost.

DKoK can't take them though unless you start with the soup shenanigins.

What do you mean they can't take them? I'm looking at the unit entry for the Death Korps Mars-Alpha Russ and the Punisher Cannon is listed.



The Malcador Defender still suffers from the same problem that most of the super heavies have which was not updating the number of shots post Codex, so the Punisher just blows it out of the water.

 Chris521 wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Can't remember if it is points efficient however.

It's not. Consider the LR Punisher, which has 16 "heavy bolters" for a cheaper point cost.

DKoK can't take them though unless you start with the soup shenanigins.

What do you mean they can't take them? I'm looking at the unit entry for the Death Korps Mars-Alpha Russ and the Punisher Cannon is listed.



The Malcador Defender still suffers from the same problem that most of the super heavies have which was not updating the number of shots post Codex, so the Punisher just blows it out of the water.

Lol, my bad. I read it as Land Raider Punisher - doh!

leffegnu wrote:
I enjoy playing in tournaments from time to time as well but thats more for the learning experience; not wining at all cost.

The problem with the FW superheavies is that they go far beyond "not winning at all costs" and into "utter trash even in low-power games". You are significantly hurting yourself by taking them, even when your opponents are playing lower-tier "fun" or "narrative" lists. The lack of a proper 8th edition rules update really makes them that bad. And god help you if you bring them to a tournament, you aren't going to have much fun as your very expensive army is wiped off the table game after game.

Dunno if it is still available but I would point you toward a medusa.
I looted one for my orkses, and I like it alot.
Kriegians used Medusas, according to the scribes.
Dunno about current rules, however - I don;t have a Kreig army,
and know gak all about FW stuff besides
I like my looted Medusa.

I've had big success with the Vulcan paired with a Trojin. Another tank used on the Malcador chassis is the Valdor tank hunter. Which I've used effectively. Same with the infernos.
The way I see it, you have to take a trojin wirh most SuperHeavys. It's a small tax but give huge results

Correct me if I'm wrong (don't have rules in front of me now), but I don't think the Valdor is listed for DKoK. Not that it's a big deal since it's basically a really bad Shadowsword at almost the same cost.

 Chris521 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (don't have rules in front of me now), but I don't think the Valdor is listed for DKoK. Not that it's a big deal since it's basically a really bad Shadowsword at almost the same cost.

Its listed in the FAQ, and it's around the same price as a Macharus. Valdors are less then 400, shadow swords over 500. The Valdor has tank hunter and it gives a nice -1 to hit to units that failed to make a save against its maingun.

jeff white wrote:Dunno if it is still available but I would point you toward a medusa.
I looted one for my orkses, and I like it alot.
Kriegians used Medusas, according to the scribes.
Dunno about current rules, however - I don;t have a Kreig army,
and know gak all about FW stuff besides
I like my looted Medusa.

The medusas are definitely a viable options when making future expansions of my growing army
Since i already have three earthshakers its less important right now but i i keep expanding they will sooner or later be of interest.

kinratha wrote:I've had big success with the Vulcan paired with a Trojin. Another tank used on the Malcador chassis is the Valdor tank hunter. Which I've used effectively. Same with the infernos.
The way I see it, you have to take a trojin wirh most SuperHeavys. It's a small tax but give huge results

Yeah, a Trojan will be included soon, probably next buy

kinratha wrote:

 Chris521 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (don't have rules in front of me now), but I don't think the Valdor is listed for DKoK. Not that it's a big deal since it's basically a really bad Shadowsword at almost the same cost.

Its listed in the FAQ, and it's around the same price as a Macharus. Valdors are less then 400, shadow swords over 500. The Valdor has tank hunter and it gives a nice -1 to hit to units that failed to make a save against its maingun.

Valdor is listed as <astra militarum> so its dkok legitime.
right?

I started this thread to ask what tanks i should get and well, i received tons of interesting thoughts and sitll it didn't ended up as planed for me haha =)
I bought 10 more riders, 2 leman russ apha pattern, 2 annihilator, one tank comander crew kit and, the Valdor
I think and hope the Gorgon will be rereleased soon and I figured that plus a macharus and trojan will get me way over the £250 for free shipping ^^

Guess i am of the odd generation because i don't mind if i lose one game or ten in a row as long as i am having fun and enjoy what i look at =)

Still, it is sad that dkok big things are so overpriced compared to what they offer. On the other hand, that spurs me to try figure out new ways of gameplay. Although i know mathhammer says and points to things its another thing when playing - at least for me on my low level

 kinratha wrote:

 Chris521 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (don't have rules in front of me now), but I don't think the Valdor is listed for DKoK. Not that it's a big deal since it's basically a really bad Shadowsword at almost the same cost.

Its listed in the FAQ, and it's around the same price as a Macharus. Valdors are less then 400, shadow swords over 500. The Valdor has tank hunter and it gives a nice -1 to hit to units that failed to make a save against its maingun.

If they added it to the list then fair enough, but your comparison between the two tanks is way off. The Shadowsword is only 30 points more than the Valdor. Even without running the numbers, the Shadowsword has about twice the firepower of the Vador. The Shadowsword can also cause a -1 to hit on the target in the form of hitting it with a sledgehammer. Almost any target will be lucky if its only been knocked into a lower wound bracket after getting hit with a Volcano Cannon.

I started this thread to ask what tanks i should get and well, i received tons of interesting thoughts and sitll it didn't ended up as planed for me haha =)
I bought 10 more riders, 2 leman russ apha pattern, 2 annihilator, one tank comander crew kit and, the Valdor
I think and hope the Gorgon will be rereleased soon and I figured that plus a macharus and trojan will get me way over the £250 for free shipping ^^

Guess i am of the odd generation because i don't mind if i lose one game or ten in a row as long as i am having fun and enjoy what i look at =)

Still, it is sad that dkok big things are so overpriced compared to what they offer. On the other hand, that spurs me to try figure out new ways of gameplay. Although i know mathhammer says and points to things its another thing when playing - at least for me on my low level

I've used annihilator in pairs of Two to great success. I play mostly Armored Krieg. Even though they hit on a 4+ I always give the annihilator hull lascannons. In a pair of two they are dishing out 10 lascannon shots. I also recommend cyclops. I've used these units as a counter charge unit. The cyclops, if you get whinin range with be a threat to anything o the battlefield, and they are easy to hide.

Yeah, they're the same price and they're night and day. Shadowsword is on a list of units that I don't trust as being fairly priced. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next CA, what with all the new shiny knights on the way. It's hard to get people excited about a range of models when you've put such a curp-stomping hard counter to them all in the game, at a price that's only about 60pts more than a kitted Repulsor!

 kinratha wrote:

I started this thread to ask what tanks i should get and well, i received tons of interesting thoughts and sitll it didn't ended up as planed for me haha =)
I bought 10 more riders, 2 leman russ apha pattern, 2 annihilator, one tank comander crew kit and, the Valdor
I think and hope the Gorgon will be rereleased soon and I figured that plus a macharus and trojan will get me way over the £250 for free shipping ^^

Guess i am of the odd generation because i don't mind if i lose one game or ten in a row as long as i am having fun and enjoy what i look at =)

Still, it is sad that dkok big things are so overpriced compared to what they offer. On the other hand, that spurs me to try figure out new ways of gameplay. Although i know mathhammer says and points to things its another thing when playing - at least for me on my low level

I've used annihilator in pairs of Two to great success. I play mostly Armored Krieg. Even though they hit on a 4+ I always give the annihilator hull lascannons. In a pair of two they are dishing out 10 lascannon shots. I also recommend cyclops. I've used these units as a counter charge unit. The cyclops, if you get whinin range with be a threat to anything o the battlefield, and they are easy to hide.

Thats good news to hear from a solid tank commander =)
Think i read somewhere that having the hull mounted lascannon on the annihilators is close to a must so thats my plan the first battles anyway :>
You run more than a pair of them?

I have three cyclopes, with crew since i started in 7th. Having them as counter-charge sounds a lot of fun, haven't had that thought
Thanks for the advice :>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chris521 wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Chris521 wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong (don't have rules in front of me now), but I don't think the Valdor is listed for DKoK. Not that it's a big deal since it's basically a really bad Shadowsword at almost the same cost.

Its listed in the FAQ, and it's around the same price as a Macharus. Valdors are less then 400, shadow swords over 500. The Valdor has tank hunter and it gives a nice -1 to hit to units that failed to make a save against its maingun.

If they added it to the list then fair enough, but your comparison between the two tanks is way off. The Shadowsword is only 30 points more than the Valdor. Even without running the numbers, the Shadowsword has about twice the firepower of the Vador. The Shadowsword can also cause a -1 to hit on the target in the form of hitting it with a sledgehammer. Almost any target will be lucky if its only been knocked into a lower wound bracket after getting hit with a Volcano Cannon.

grouchoben wrote:Yeah, they're the same price and they're night and day. Shadowsword is on a list of units that I don't trust as being fairly priced. I wouldn't be surprised to see a change in the next CA, what with all the new shiny knights on the way. It's hard to get people excited about a range of models when you've put such a curp-stomping hard counter to them all in the game, at a price that's only about 60pts more than a kitted Repulsor!

The Shadowsword is a bit op for me in most of my games :>
Its a nice looking tank and sure way better than the Valdors but imo its to good to play friendly games for now.
Competitive on the other hand you go in as hard as you can

Personally i think your are right that the Shadowsword is a bit low considering points. If thats going to change however i am not sure about.
I think GW needs to start reevaluate their approach to playing 8th since most things "only" gets better offensive nowadays - more guns and bigger guns. Thats one way to balance the game but i would love to see units (tanks, vehicles, monsters, flyers and so forth) that doesn't carry the uber load of weapons but instead can soak up more wounds and survive till turn 4. That would in my eyes bring even more possibilities playing this game

I've done extensive math on Russes. Basically out of the standard turrets the Battlecannon is the best. Demolishers are kind of trash especially considering their range. Executioners are ok, but I believe they are not as good as the BC when you factor in the wounds you will cause yourself. The Annihilator is also ok, but costs a fair bit more.

The DKK Vanquisher with the coaxial gun is actually ok too, though the regular Vanquisher is terrible.

Conquerors are amazing so long as you can stay in range of their coaxial gun.

Stux wrote:
I've done extensive math on Russes. Basically out of the standard turrets the Battlecannon is the best. Demolishers are kind of trash especially considering their range. Executioners are ok, but I believe they are not as good as the BC when you factor in the wounds you will cause yourself. The Annihilator is also ok, but costs a fair bit more.

The DKK Vanquisher with the coaxial gun is actually ok too, though the regular Vanquisher is terrible.

Conquerors are amazing so long as you can stay in range of their coaxial gun.

I stayed out of the Vanquisher since what i have read its been trash.
Good if thats not the case since i like the look of the fw model