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Hey,

Hoping some knowledgeable peeps can settle an argument. Well, several actually while I'm here. I know (or am self convinced of the answers), but won't say so it's not going one way or the other.

Here they are:

The Deathwatch are solely tasked to deal with space hulks. I.e. if your in a space hulk, your either lost or in the watch.

Deathwatch and Deathwing are entirely separate (apart from the possibility of asking a Deathwing member to be part of the Deathwatch).

Any action on a hulk will entail an inquisitor from the ordo xenos (in command or otherwise involved, not in combat).

The Deathwing are made up from elites with original protogenes.

An inquisitor is able to command space marine chapters.

Thanks in advance to any answers. And if you know the answers, please post even if someone already has. The above questions are hotly contested and the more answers the better.

No to first. Marines routinely cleanse hulks often with terminators. That's premise of space hulk game. Yes to second. Deathwing are veterans of dark angels. As suchno to 4th. They are simply veterans who have shown martial skill to get there and are deemed mentally strong enough to be told bit more of dark angels secret. 3rd is no. If hulk comes not even possible to wait for inquisitor who wants to go in rather than delegate.

For 5th In theory they can order them but in practice simply roughing it can cause more trouble than it solves. Forced allies are less useful than willing. And you are dealing with somebody who can kill you so if you piss them enough and they think they can hide it you might run into an "accident'

I know Deathwatch are not only space hulk related, They deal with xenos as a whole same way grey knights deal with daemons and the warp.

The other answer I am aware of is that Deathwing and Death watch are entirely different. Deathwing are a branch of the dark angels, Deathwatch are a totally separate entity.

Hope this helped

Thanks. The 5th was a suprise to me since in all the lore I've read, Marine chapters are able to ignore inquisitor requests (though not generally wise) since they take only orders 'from the Emp'.

1. No, they're specialist Xeno killers. And as for if they're the only ones allowed on a hulk.... Space Hulk: Vengeance of the Blood Angels.... Space Hulk: Deathwing.

2. Yes

3. No

4. What? They're normal Dark Angels genes wise if that's what you mean.

5. Yes, in theory.... but good luck telling 1000 ceramite armoured killing machines to do something they don't want to

phillv85 wrote:
1

5. Yes, in theory.... but good luck telling 1000 ceramite armoured killing machines to do something they don't want to

I'm definately out in lore then. When/where was this clarified? I need to read up.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Inquisition

Under the section of Role of the Inquisition. They have absolute authority and answer to nobody but the emperor.

Mr B wrote:
Thanks. The 5th was a suprise to me since in all the lore I've read, Marine chapters are able to ignore inquisitor requests (though not generally wise) since they take only orders 'from the Emp'.

Hahahahaha!

Oh, yeah. They can. All day long.

...it's those little consequences that follow.

"Well, looks like you need to submit even more of your gene-seed for purity testing..."
"Oh, would you look at that- the intelligence your chapter received about a relic was inaccurate, it's a newly-awakened Tomb World..."
"My Goodness, your Astartes are so skilled we really need more seconded to the Deathwatch."
"Oh, my- of all the Chapters to come to your aid, the Grey Knights- and I've no idea why they think you may be dabbling in heresy."
"Your Astropath led you right into the path of a Splinter Fleet? Oh, well I'm sure you'll at least slow them down long enough for us to muster a proper response."

Inquisitors have at least in theory power to order pretty much anything. Custodens are exception. But in practice he can only go so far. If he doesn#t have personal clout it will be harder and marines are famously independent so pushing them too hard can meet with an "accident". Especially if you are rookie who has just got his rosetta. But veteran famous one will likely get even marines jump if order isn't totally nutty.

Generally if reasonable request marines will likely help btt ordering roughly gets often less success than diplomacy

Mr B wrote:

phillv85 wrote:
1

5. Yes, in theory.... but good luck telling 1000 ceramite armoured killing machines to do something they don't want to

I'm definately out in lore then. When/where was this clarified? I need to read up.

Inquisitors & Space Marines have separate command command structures, and while some Chapters will do anything an Inquisitor tells them to, others wont. Inquisitors looking into the Blood Angels (and their successors) have met with 'accidents' and so have Chapters that ignored the Inquisition (Celestial Lions), for example.

Gotcha.

I've also seen this snippet from the link: If required, Inquisitors may call on the service and/or resources of any Imperial servant or organisation. Not even a High Lord of Terra may refuse the order of an Inquisitor without good reason. This power extends across the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus (however, learned Inquisitors show discretion and request the assistance of the Space Marines

And, as many answers as possible to the questions, in order to give a solid acknowledged answers all in agreement.

They are bit of a sore point for the individual concerned

"The Deathwatch are solely tasked to deal with space hulks. I.e. if your in a space hulk, your either lost or in the watch."

No. Regular Marines cleanse space Hulks all the time. In fact in the original Space Hulk game the Marines were from all from the Blood Angels chapter.

"Deathwatch and Deathwing are entirely separate (apart from the possibility of asking a Deathwing member to be part of the Deathwatch)."

Correct.

"Any action on a hulk will entail an inquisitor from the ordo xenos (in command or otherwise involved, not in combat)."]/i]

Not necessarily. Space is big, there are a lot of space hulks, and only so many Inquisitirs to go around.

[i]"The Deathwing are made up from elites with original protogenes."

Deathwing are all from the same chapter, the Dark Angels.

"An inquisitor is able to command space marine chapters. "

Hmmmm..... Not really. Space Marines cooperate with the Inquisition, but they don't take orders from, well, anyone, really. Maybe the High Lords of Terra. But a Space Marines chapter, particularly First Founding chapters, are for the most part a law unto themselves.

Mr B wrote:
Gotcha.

I've also seen this snippet from the link: If required, Inquisitors may call on the service and/or resources of any Imperial servant or organisation. Not even a High Lord of Terra may refuse the order of an Inquisitor without good reason. This power extends across the Adeptus Astartes and the Adeptus Mechanicus (however, learned Inquisitors show discretion and request the assistance of the Space Marines

And, as many answers as possible to the questions, in order to give a solid acknowledged answers all in agreement.

They are bit of a sore point for the individual concerned

Keep in mind the only person that can challenge an Inquisitor is another Inquisitor. Their entire support network is roughly dependent on one another and being credible and respected.

Now, let's just say Inquisitor Piddlepants is an inquisitor no one really respects or cares about. He asks the Big Meanies Chapter of Space Marines to do something. Their response is, "Go suck-start a bolter". He can cry, he can throw a tantrum- but if he tries to do something or suggests something be done, Inquisitor Chillguy- a highly respected Bro of an an Inquisitor will tell him to calm down, and maybe run interference. He might speak on his behalf to the Big Meanies, he might remind the Big Meanies that Piddlepants is still an Inquisitor- but there's going to be a long talk behind closed doors between Inquisitors about why Piddlepants somehow isn't respected.

Thanks folks, they eventually got the message. I didn't know about inquisitors having authority over marine chapters, though that seems a bit of a grey area in practicality.

Hi, this is a question with regards to the Space Hulk Deathwing game.

There is a Hive fleet in system, Dark Angels called in to assist the Astro Militarum with the threat.

It is my opinion that it is it likely to be the Ordo Xenos calling the shots with regard to the Hive fleet and the Astro Militarum.

Is this likely to be the case?

Mr B wrote:
Thanks folks, they eventually got the message. I didn't know about inquisitors having authority over marine chapters, though that seems a bit of a grey area in practicality.

It's one of those things like a neighbor asking you for a favor.

Do you really want to give him the finger and say 'no' when he's the guy that watches your place while you're out on vacation?

Alternatively, if you were asking a neighbor for a favor- would you burden him unnecessarily, or are you asking him because he's competent and you need the help?

In the end, it's all about whether or not it's worth the friction for both groups. There may not be an official "This group must listen to that group" rule of law, but it's one of those things where you don't want to piss off certain organizations and deal with the problems.

Well in theory inquisitors word carries weight of the emperor. But he's still just mortal man out in the wild with information not spreading much and he could even deliberately be out of sight so if he gets killed no-one might ever know let alone culprit found. That means his practical ability is held in check with marines who are more than capable of killing him. Also with ig(ditto and are they even loayal?) Or planetary government.

Meanwhile marines can't just kill inquisitors at will as they ARE inquisitors with ultimate authority so if they are found out killing them hell break loose.

So we end up in situation where they try to work together when possible. Inquisitors requests, marines try to comply when it suits and neither really wants to piss of other if possible. Who has bigger clout usually has advantage. Famous inquisitor requesting help from minor chapter has easier time than rookie one asking from say white scars!

This is the other half of the argument Mr. B and I were having by the way...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lander1979 wrote:
Hi, this is a question with regards to the Space Hulk Deathwing game.

There is a Hive fleet in system, Dark Angels called in to assist the Astro Militarum with the threat.

It is my opinion that it is it likely to be the Ordo Xenos calling the shots with regard to the Hive fleet and the Astro Militarum.

Is this likely to be the case?

Oh and will often also depend on type of request. Request that's worthy of marines and helps clearly imperium? Sure. Personal vendetta that will end up costing imperium? Piss of. Inquisitor can threaten excommunicate them but marines will know superiors will overrule such a clear misuse of authority


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In that case likely overall big boss would be highest ranking inquisitor present but in military matters he would delegate to more knowledgeable(assuming he isn't idiot which is possible at which point he might be ignored or dealt with)


Also just because you have authority doesn't mean you will choose to use it to everything. Marine leader likely knows more tactics than inquisitor


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here\s some more thoughts about that scenario.

Hive fleet approaching. Imperial guard mustered. Inquisitor(doesn't even have to be Ordo Xenos btw. Could be just Ordo Malleus who happened to be around) finds out about marine chapter nearby. He orders/request help from them. It's in his right as he's considered to be speaking on Emperor's authority.

Now what could happen? Well marine forces might just be ready from rest&ready and are itching for fight and fight against tyranids is obviously noble cause for them so they rush in aid. No issues.

Inquisitor could also piss them off and/or marines have their hands busy. "Yeah there's tyranid fleet coming there. We are heck deep on daemons here!". Or say dark angels are hunting fallen. Now technically flat out refusing would be treason so marines won't do it lightly but they could say delay it citing communication issues. They got order late. Quite plausible. Or they finish off their job(capture the fallen) and come late and claim warp travel was slower as usual(again plausible reason so might go through without issue). They could also send in just partion of their strenght. With information flow in Imperium hardly being real time Inquisitor likely wouldn't even know accurate roster any way...

Now if Inquisitor gets pissed off what HE can do? Simply beating them isn't often plausible. Leading punishing crusade calling aid from IG and maybe other astartes chapters would make it high profile so if he doesn't have VERY good reasons HIS superiors will be pissed off. So threatening with excommunicate traitorus isn't automatic key. He can't do anything at will. Inquisitors might carry word of Emperor but so do his superiors who are...Well his superiors! And if you are 1 Inquisitor and entire ordo gets pissed off at you...

Mr B wrote:
Thanks folks, they eventually got the message. I didn't know about inquisitors having authority over marine chapters, though that seems a bit of a grey area in practicality.

The official religion of the Imperium is the Cult of the Emperor. Worship is organized (and universally ENFORCED) by the Minsitorium. The Inquisition, while technically not part of the Minsitorium, is charged, in part, with hunting down and rooting out heresy.

One of the sore points is that, with a few notable exceptions, Space Marines do NOT follow the Cult of the Emperor. So cooperation between Inquisitors and Space Marines is always tense at best.

I mean an Inquisitor could declare the entire, say, Imperial Fists chapter as Hereticus and issue an Order of Exterminatus, but who would they call on to carry the order out? The Imperial Guard? Not enough Guard in an entire Sector to wipe out an entire Space Marines chapter. Another chapter of Space Marines? The Ultramarines are just as "heretical," in the eyes of the Inquisition, as any other First Founding chapter. Plus they would never attack their Battle Brothers short of a full blown Chaos infestation.

And since we're talking about Deathwing, back during the Horace Heresy there were some Dark Angels marines who got tainted by Chaos. The rest of the Dark Angels cleaned house and hushed it up, but it is a HUGE sore spot for them, and 90% of their overall efforts are geared toward making sure NO ONE outside the Chapter ever finds out.

If an Inquisitor tried to accuse some Dark Angels of anything, you're have 20 Dark Angels Space Marines surrounding & subduing that Inquisitor, one of them would set off a nuke blowing them all to atoms, and all the other Dark Angels would say with totally straight faces "Oops, training accident."

There are very few Space Marine chapters that bow to Inquisition authority. The Red Hunters and the Exorcists are Chapters created by the Inquisition, and follow Inquisition authority. Deathwatch is under Inquisition control. Grey Knights are members of the Inquisition, with one of their Grandmasters siting on the Inquisition’s High Council. No other Chapter bows to the Inquisition, but the vast major maintain good relations with the Inquisition in order to avoid excommunication and exterminatus.

SJ

Even if they don\t bow they generally won't be too open about ignoring as ignoring Inquisitors has very real danger. You ARE ignoring guys who have the ultimate authority so too open ignoring especially when it's clearly in best interest of Imperium could get marines on the chopping block.

It's a question that has no clear answer. Inquisitors don't go ordering around always. Marines don't decline all the time. Inquisitors have authority over all(that's given) but marines are powerful entity and are scarce in numbers so misusing them isn't good for Imperium. So if Inquistor is making too silly orders like come quell this chaos uprising marines are more likely to ignore as Inquisitor will likely find it hard to raise support from his superiors. Marines would unlikely to be taking typical chaos cult rising as high priority until either daemons or chaos marines shows up(at which point marines might come whether Inquisitor says a word about it!). They could still send some support if Inquisitor asks for it(he would be unlikely be ORDERING seeing he would likely know how weak his position would be) if they aren't in middle of more urgent business. Marines and Inquisitors in general DO share common goal. Good of Imperium. Marines don't generally decline a fight if they don't have bigger priority fight to deal with.

However will be unlikely marines will flat out say "no" straight to face either. That's trying to ignite spark around powder barrels often. You would be openly defying somebody who DOES have legal authority to order you. Not often best moves. But due to marines own clout they can often get away with more subtle "no's" which Inquisitor can't overcome unless HE has even bigger personal clout.

tneva82 wrote:
Even if they don\t bow they generally won't be too open about ignoring as ignoring Inquisitors has very real danger. You ARE ignoring guys who have the ultimate authority so too open ignoring especially when it's clearly in best interest of Imperium could get marines on the chopping block.

Also, very rarely is an Inquisitor an idiot. If he says, "We have a problem and I need Astartes", it's generally a significant problem that he couldn't throw a couple hundred Stormtroopers and a Deathwatch Kill-Team at. While a lot of things portray Inquisitors as mustache-twirling trenchcoat villains that get a hard-on for making people miserable... most of them aren't, and don't make their most brutal decisions lightly.

Witch-hunters, on the other hand, may be more absurd about things. But not every witch-hunter is an Inquisitor, or has that authority. They may be Ecclesiarchal fanatics, they may be Inquisitors, but even then calling on Astartes for something trivial and stupid is a good way to get an assignment on a Death World with very little funding, support, or safety precautions...

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Even if they don\t bow they generally won't be too open about ignoring as ignoring Inquisitors has very real danger. You ARE ignoring guys who have the ultimate authority so too open ignoring especially when it's clearly in best interest of Imperium could get marines on the chopping block.

Also, very rarely is an Inquisitor an idiot. If he says, "We have a problem and I need Astartes", it's generally a significant problem that he couldn't throw a couple hundred Stormtroopers and a Deathwatch Kill-Team at. While a lot of things portray Inquisitors as mustache-twirling trenchcoat villains that get a hard-on for making people miserable... most of them aren't, and don't make their most brutal decisions lightly.

Witch-hunters, on the other hand, may be more absurd about things. But not every witch-hunter is an Inquisitor, or has that authority. They may be Ecclesiarchal fanatics, they may be Inquisitors, but even then calling on Astartes for something trivial and stupid is a good way to get an assignment on a Death World with very little funding, support, or safety precautions...

True that. Inquisitors aren't calling for marines lightly(especially as they know marines would likely ignore and Inquisitors don't want to force issue lightly either) and marines would likely know that so if they CAN help they likely would. Some chapters might not be too happy(dark angels worried about their secret being found) but often situation Inquistor calls in for a help from marines would be one marines would be coming on their own if they found out about.

Inquisitors are one of my favourite parts of 40k. In theory ultimate authority but never so black&white.

tneva82 wrote:
True that. Inquisitors aren't calling for marines lightly(especially as they know marines would likely ignore and Inquisitors don't want to force issue lightly either) and marines would likely know that so if they CAN help they likely would. Some chapters might not be too happy(dark angels worried about their secret being found) but often situation Inquistor calls in for a help from marines would be one marines would be coming on their own if they found out about.

Inquisitors are one of my favourite parts of 40k. In theory ultimate authority but never so black&white.

Fun headcanon: The Inquisition and all the other Chapters know about the Dark Angels' 'secret' with the Fallen. But no one says anything, because it's funny to watch them go into a panic.

"Hey, Brothers- *snicker*- Let's put out an astropathic message saying we've gotten reports about black-clad Heretic Astartes wearing robes and calling themselves some kind of Angels. We'll wager to see how many Dark Angel successor chapters show up." -Sergeant Trollington

So it's highly plausible that there is an Inquisitor involved in coordinating the Astro Militarum and Dark Angels in this scenario, although it may not necessarily be Ordo Xenos?

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:
Also, very rarely is an Inquisitor an idiot... Witch-hunters, on the other hand, may be more absurd about things. But not every witch-hunter is an Inquisitor, or has that authority. They may be Ecclesiarchal fanatics, they may be Inquisitors, but even then calling on Astartes for something trivial and stupid is a good way to get an assignment on a Death World with very little funding, support, or safety precautions...

But Witch Hunters can call on the Sororatas. Not quite Astartes, but Bolters & Power Armor is Bolters & Power Armor.






Jeez, I wish GW would hurry up with the plastic Sisters already. Any hints?

phydaux wrote:
But Witch Hunters can call on the Sororatas. Not quite Astartes, but Bolters & Power Armor is Bolters & Power Armor.

IMPERIAL CITIZEN: "Wow, those Black Templars are fanatics. And the Salamanders are crazy pyros. Sheesh, I don't think anyone can-"
SISTER OF BATTLE: "Hold my rosarius."

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
True that. Inquisitors aren't calling for marines lightly(especially as they know marines would likely ignore and Inquisitors don't want to force issue lightly either) and marines would likely know that so if they CAN help they likely would. Some chapters might not be too happy(dark angels worried about their secret being found) but often situation Inquistor calls in for a help from marines would be one marines would be coming on their own if they found out about.

Inquisitors are one of my favourite parts of 40k. In theory ultimate authority but never so black&white.

Fun headcanon: The Inquisition and all the other Chapters know about the Dark Angels' 'secret' with the Fallen. But no one says anything, because it's funny to watch them go into a panic.

"Hey, Brothers- *snicker*- Let's put out an astropathic message saying we've gotten reports about black-clad Heretic Astartes wearing robes and calling themselves some kind of Angels. We'll wager to see how many Dark Angel successor chapters show up." -Sergeant Trollington

haha you know what? I love it!

While I love dark angels(my fav chapter) I do think GW boxed themselves with them a bit. Idea of their secret sounds cool but...It's too mundane. So some rebelled. Bohoo. Other legions had traitors as well...

They came up with secret that's just not quite dark enough.

tneva82 wrote:

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
True that. Inquisitors aren't calling for marines lightly(especially as they know marines would likely ignore and Inquisitors don't want to force issue lightly either) and marines would likely know that so if they CAN help they likely would. Some chapters might not be too happy(dark angels worried about their secret being found) but often situation Inquistor calls in for a help from marines would be one marines would be coming on their own if they found out about.

Inquisitors are one of my favourite parts of 40k. In theory ultimate authority but never so black&white.

Fun headcanon: The Inquisition and all the other Chapters know about the Dark Angels' 'secret' with the Fallen. But no one says anything, because it's funny to watch them go into a panic.

"Hey, Brothers- *snicker*- Let's put out an astropathic message saying we've gotten reports about black-clad Heretic Astartes wearing robes and calling themselves some kind of Angels. We'll wager to see how many Dark Angel successor chapters show up." -Sergeant Trollington

haha you know what? I love it!

While I love dark angels(my fav chapter) I do think GW boxed themselves with them a bit. Idea of their secret sounds cool but...It's too mundane. So some rebelled. Bohoo. Other legions had traitors as well...

They came up with secret that's just not quite dark enough.

I always thought that wasn't the secret, it was that they knew about Horus and the other traitor legions and didn't tell anyone.
Yes some darkangles might have been heretics but the darkangles split into two and both sides believed themselves to be the loyalist half of the chapter and didn't dare tell anyone for fear of being tainted. Now they are just the shady goth children that like to sulk in the darkness.

If the fallen were truly the chaos half why do they tend to do things that usually benifit the imperium.

Inquisitors are actually outranked by I believe Custodes and Guilliman, also if some of the theory's are correct an inquisitor picking a fight with a full chapter of marines better have some solid proof as the word of a battlebrother (speaking of them bravely fighting back against the traitors legions) was enough to allow traitor legion marines to be allowed to form loyalist chapters.