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Is the Hellblater squad w/Plasma incinerators a viable anti-armor/tank choice? I'm trying to ,ale my Crimson Fist army more competitive well still keeping it a bit fun and fluffy. I like the new Primaris stuff and could see how the CF would have some of those units incorporated pretty quickly given how decimated their ranks were.

Take this with a grain of salt, but my friend runs 3 five man hellblasters and they put in work as long as they’re left alone.

 Iur_tae_mont wrote:
Take this with a grain of salt, but my friend runs 3 five man hellblasters and they put in work as long as they’re left alone.

But who in their right mind would leave them alone? Hellblasters should come with a "Shoot Me First!" sign right on the sprue.

That's their big flaw. That, and to hit penalties.

dkoz wrote:
Is the Hellblater squad w/Plasma incinerators a viable anti-armor/tank choice? I'm trying to ,ale my Crimson Fist army more competitive well still keeping it a bit fun and fluffy. I like the new Primaris stuff and could see how the CF would have some of those units incorporated pretty quickly given how decimated their ranks were.

Yes and no. I wouldn't call them amazing antitank, but they're fairly good at it. They have to get close, and overcharge.

The overcharging isn't the problem, the getting close is.

You haven't met the Eldar Harlequin trickery Bro. You will know how bad the Hellblasters could perform when they kill themselves by rolling 1 2 and 3s. No doubt they carries the guns to deal with "traditional tanks and monsters" like Predators, Land Raiders, Leman Russ, Carnifexes, Trygons etc. who relies on their toughness and armor saves to survive, but are quite unable to handle the current meta where durability is defined by toughness (T7+) AND inv saves AND "new invisibility" (i.e. cumulative -1 to hit, basically exculsive to Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequins) and/or FnP, good examples are Flyrants near Malanthropes, Harlequin Starweavers, Dark Eldar Venoms, Eldar Alitoic Flyers or Wave Serpent under psychic power protection. When you consider good AT / Anti MC units, ask yourself what can deal with these stuffs.

The best AT / Anti armor imo now is
1. Orbital Bombardment, 50% chances to cause D3 MW against non character tanks / monsters.
2. Flakk Missile stratagem, you can get reliable hits against those Harlequin vehicles and go through their inv saves. Against Flyrants, hit on 2s. But limited to Fly units only.
3. Hellfire shells, goes through any toughness and saves.

To a lesser stand, some more conventional non CP costing units are: Leviathan Dread with 2 storm cannons, Mortis Dread, Riflemen Venerable Dread, of course, remember to stick them near Guilliman, he gives your Riflemen Venerable Dreadnought 34% chances to one round a Harlequin Starweaver.

Ye olde traditional Devastator Squads. Lascannons, Grav Cannons and Plasma Cannons are my go-to weapons. Get a Cherub for a one-time extra shot(s), and the sarge has a Signum for a +1 to hit on one model. They get all the benefits of infantry, like easy cover or deploying out of LOS, chapter tactics use, plus access to cheap transports, unlike the Primaris guys.

Flakk missile stratagem seems to favor a squad with 3 Lascannons and a Missile Launcher for at least one unit now.

Neophyte2012 wrote:
You haven't met the Eldar Harlequin trickery Bro. You will know how bad the Hellblasters could perform when they kill themselves by rolling 1 2 and 3s. No doubt they carries the guns to deal with "traditional tanks and monsters" like Predators, Land Raiders, Leman Russ, Carnifexes, Trygons etc. who relies on their toughness and armor saves to survive, but are quite unable to handle the current meta where durability is defined by toughness (T7+) AND inv saves AND "new invisibility" (i.e. cumulative -1 to hit, basically exculsive to Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequins) and/or FnP, good examples are Flyrants near Malanthropes, Harlequin Starweavers, Dark Eldar Venoms, Eldar Alitoic Flyers or Wave Serpent under psychic power protection. When you consider good AT / Anti MC units, ask yourself what can deal with these stuffs.

The best AT / Anti armor imo now is
1. Orbital Bombardment, 50% chances to cause D3 MW against non character tanks / monsters.
2. Flakk Missile stratagem, you can get reliable hits against those Harlequin vehicles and go through their inv saves. Against Flyrants, hit on 2s. But limited to Fly units only.
3. Hellfire shells, goes through any toughness and saves.

To a lesser stand, some more conventional non CP costing units are: Leviathan Dread with 2 storm cannons, Mortis Dread, Riflemen Venerable Dread, of course, remember to stick them near Guilliman, he gives your Riflemen Venerable Dreadnought 34% chances to one round a Harlequin Starweaver.

man it's like some units have a rock to their scissors!

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ye olde traditional Devastator Squads. Lascannons, Grav Cannons and Plasma Cannons are my go-to weapons. Get a Cherub for a one-time extra shot(s), and the sarge has a Signum for a +1 to hit on one model. They get all the benefits of infantry, like easy cover or deploying out of LOS, chapter tactics use, plus access to cheap transports, unlike the Primaris guys.

Flakk missile stratagem seems to favor a squad with 3 Lascannons and a Missile Launcher for at least one unit now.

Grav cannons are total garbage for 28 pts. The other weapons listed are mediocre, but functional.

look to forge world - relic leviathan is the answer to all problems.

Plas is filling the role of AT, but Melta was designed for it.

Unfortunately, Plas fairly clearly outperforms Melta, so nobody takes it.

LasCannons are still a solid AT weapon.

Bharring wrote:
Plas is filling the role of AT, but Melta was designed for it.

Unfortunately, Plas fairly clearly outperforms Melta, so nobody takes it.

LasCannons are still a solid AT weapon.

A lot less solid in a world of mass invuln saves.

Bharring wrote:
Plas is filling the role of AT, but Melta was designed for it.

Unfortunately, Plas fairly clearly outperforms Melta, so nobody takes it.

LasCannons are still a solid AT weapon.

Melta is over costed sadly :(

BrianDavion wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Plas is filling the role of AT, but Melta was designed for it.

Unfortunately, Plas fairly clearly outperforms Melta, so nobody takes it.

LasCannons are still a solid AT weapon.

Melta is over costed sadly :(

Overcostea and bareiy better in optimal situation that's had to get and worse otherwise

Martel732 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ye olde traditional Devastator Squads. Lascannons, Grav Cannons and Plasma Cannons are my go-to weapons. Get a Cherub for a one-time extra shot(s), and the sarge has a Signum for a +1 to hit on one model. They get all the benefits of infantry, like easy cover or deploying out of LOS, chapter tactics use, plus access to cheap transports, unlike the Primaris guys.

Flakk missile stratagem seems to favor a squad with 3 Lascannons and a Missile Launcher for at least one unit now.

Grav cannons are total garbage for 28 pts. The other weapons listed are mediocre, but functional.

For 3 points more than a Las Cannon, you get better anti-tank, better anti Elite, and better anti horde. Shorter range, just get 'em there. Those 4 shots go a long way.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Ye olde traditional Devastator Squads. Lascannons, Grav Cannons and Plasma Cannons are my go-to weapons. Get a Cherub for a one-time extra shot(s), and the sarge has a Signum for a +1 to hit on one model. They get all the benefits of infantry, like easy cover or deploying out of LOS, chapter tactics use, plus access to cheap transports, unlike the Primaris guys.

Flakk missile stratagem seems to favor a squad with 3 Lascannons and a Missile Launcher for at least one unit now.

Grav cannons are total garbage for 28 pts. The other weapons listed are mediocre, but functional.

For 3 points more than a Las Cannon, you get better anti-tank, better anti Elite, and better anti horde. Shorter range, just get 'em there. Those 4 shots go a long way.

I think the problem is their relative short range. Which means whenever taking them, taking the -1 to hit penalty into consideration is always a must.
Furthermore, they will be more exposed to enemy charging / return fire than Lascannon / Missile Launcher platform. So expect them only able to fire 1 round at most before being totally put down, even 5 or 6 bolter dudes are incorporated in that squad.

The humble devastator squad with a cherub is the way to go. Use the signum from the sarge on the heavy bolter guy and use the hellfire shells stratagem, you will hit on 2+ dealing D3 MW. Now reload with the cherub and fire again. You will once again hit on 2+, dealing D3 MW again. This has been confirmed to work by the SM codex update 1.2.

You can also use flakk missile with the signum bonus to get +2 to your hit roll, negating -2 from alaitoc FLY units, or similiar.

Q: How do the Flakk Missile and Hellfire Shells Stratagems
interact with an Armorium Cherub? Are you able to ‘reload’ the
weapon and fire again with the benefit of the Stratagem?
A: Yes.

If you face FLY units the stalker is pretty good, getting +1 to hit them. Its also quite inexpensive at 109 pts. and it has T8.