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I've got 4 Missile Launchers, 4 Heavy Bolters, 4 Lascannons, and 4 Plasma Cannons.

I plan to field four Tac squads & three Dev squads. All will be Combat Squad'ed, so I'm going to end up with four Combat Squads of 1 Heavy Weapon & four extra wounds each, and six Combat Squads of two Heavy Weapons & three extra wounds each.


So how do I spread out my Heavy Weapons among all those units?

And is there ANY REASON to build the Gravcannons or the Multi-Meltas?

With your weapons at hand, I think the best way might be have 2 squad of Devastators, 1st one with 3 lascannons and 1 missile launcher, the other 3 plasma cannon and 1 heavy bolter. With them, you can make good use of the stratagem. The rest heavy weapons can be assign to Tactical Squads.

If you plan to take Grav Cannons, take Devastator Squad arming 4 of them, stuck them in Droppod, and take Guilliman. It is the only way that might make them viable given their pitty S5, and "Heavy" weapon type in 8th edition. Multimelta are trash due to being 1 shot, short range, "Heavy" weapon type and its sky high point prices.

And just NOT have a 3rd Dev squad? And NOTHING in my Tac Squads?

What Strategem?

phydaux wrote:
And just NOT have a 3rd Dev squad? And NOTHING in my Tac Squads?

What Strategem?

Flakk Missile / Hellfire Shell Stratagem. The best way to go through inv saves.

Dev 1 : 3 Lascannons, 1 Missile Launcher (Flakk Stratagem)
Dev 2: 4 Plasma Cannons
Dev 3: Grav Cannons
Tacs: Missiles and Las


OR

Dev 1: 2 Missiles, 2 Las
Dev 2: 2 Missiles, 2 Las
Dev 3: 4 Plasma Cannons
Tacs: Grav Cannons

Depends on how you want to use your Devs/Tacs. Option 2 is more traditional. Option 1 is more how I build it, but I often take 4 more Grav Cannons in the Tacs for 8 total.

Dev 1 1 lascannon
Dev 2 1 lascannon
Dev 3 1 lascannon
Tac 1 1 lascannon
Tac 2 1 missile launcher
Tac 3 1 missile launcher
Tac 4 1 missile launcher

Play salamanders

What's the point of dev squads there? Cherub? As otherwise why not run more obsec tacticals and leave HS slots free

tneva82 wrote:
What's the point of dev squads there? Cherub? As otherwise why not run more obsec tacticals and leave HS slots free

+1 to hit from the signum. Also, what else are you using heavy slots for? Predators?

+1 to hit makes sense. Though is that equal to obsec is another thing.

Hellblasters and predators would at least come to mind. Or devastators with more than 1 HW.

Why are you supposing I only want one Heavy Weapon in my Devs? Naturally I want 4 in each squad, two in each Dev Combat Squad.

And I get ObSec from my non=Heavy Weapon Tac Squad Combat Squads.

phydaux wrote:
Why are you supposing I only want one Heavy Weapon in my Devs? Naturally I want 4 in each squad, two in each Dev Combat Squad.

And I get ObSec from my non=Heavy Weapon Tac Squad Combat Squads.

That was in reference to above list with 4 tac squads with 1 heavy weapon and 3 devastator squads with 1 heavy weapon. I was wondering why so, he said to get +1 to hit. I'm not sure is that +1 to hit worth lack of obsec(I would be going for more obsec squads since those heavy weapon tacs also have it) but then again I haven't played much marines with 8th ed.

Useing 1 heavy weapon dev squads maximises the salamander chapter tactic - everyweapon gets a reroll vs 1/4 of heavy weapons get a reroll.

1 heavy weapon Dev squads are far more resistant to damage for there points - 5 marines die before you lose a 25pt heavy weapon not 2.

In just running 3 1 heavy weapon dev squads you have saved 225pts over 3 4 weapon squads which lets you take 2 more squads with 35pts left over

This gives you extra anti hoard firepower and makes it more damage resistant.

As to +1 to hit vs obsec generally obsec is better but on high value weapons (lascannon dvs are a strong choice)

They are also not exclusive I take tacs stick them on objectives and stick the devs off objectives in ruins so they get more protection.

The benefit of sticking 3 different tacs squads on 1 objective isnt that much stronger than the first two


Also ive run a few games maxing out dev and tac squads this way and is surprisingly effective if unconventional and has the bonus of basically being a battle company so its fluffy

Or you could say 6x5 devastators is more expensive than 2x5 for heavy weapon purposes since you are paying less for grunts. IMO saying you save points by not paying for extra heavy weapons is odd as that means you have less heavy weapons!

But I don't even look at the point cost as it's basically same. Dev with heavy weapon costs same as tac with heavy weapon(stupid but there you go with GW). It's +1 to hit vs obsec and more obsec squads is generally always better. As for 3 on 1...Casualties. The more units with obsec you have the more opponent has to kill to clear the objective from obsec units.

Not really your limited to 3 dev squads (rule of 3) if you take 3 4 weapon dev squads take 1 look at which 3 squads your opponents delete first in there first turn of shooting.

It wont be the tacs. Now you can make a case for 2 HW squads but anything more than that that are not in bunkers are just to squishy and in bunkers they are not cost effective and not buffable

IF you are really planning running 10man squads, which isn't competitive in anyway and that's your models..

I would do..

3x dev squads with: HB, ML, PC, LC

4x tacs with leftovers.

Reason behind saturation is.. well saturation and.. PC can't explode if you use the signum for the plasma cannon, because you get a +1 to the hit. ML and HB can do a potential 3d3 mortal wounds with the stratagems (hellfire shells and flakk missile). Most nasty things have the fly keyword and the latest FAQ let's you shoot twice with the stratagem'd armorium cherub.

I used to run my devs with one PC because of the above, but lately I've been just doing a HB, ML and LC 5man squads with cherub. That's been decent and cheap. A 3d3 MW threat from multiple source is something that you should not by pass.

Anyways, here's my 20 cents.

4D3 Mortal Wounds. 2D3 via Flakk Stratagem and Cherub, then 2D3 from Heavy Bolter via Hellfire Stratagem and Cherub from 2nd Devastator squad.

Salamanders with Vulcan can walk and hit 75% of the time with heavies. Lascannon + Multimelta puts two strong weapons with respectable range in a small package, and the MM's can reroll hits, wounds, and damage value at close range.

I would then support them with High Volume fire vehicles. Double Assault Cannon Razorbacks spring to mind.

[quote=Xirax 757935 10004495 nullPC can't explode if you use the signum for the plasma cannon, because you get a +1 to the hit.

^In the Devastator entry in the codex.

3 dev squads with 1 LC, ML, HB, PC, cherub each. Add 1-2 marines (if possible) as ablative wounds.

There is some reason to take mixed weapons in Dev squads now. The different weapons can shoot at different targets.

So if the unit plans to sit in cover, they have weapons to deal with a variety of targets that may enter their LOS. When it comes time to take casualties, you can remove whichever weapon is expected to be least effective.

It would give greater resilience vs having specialized squads. Your opponent can't focus Fire on one Squad to get rid of all the lascannons, for example.

Xirax wrote:
PC can't explode if you use the signum for the plasma cannon, because you get a +1 to the hit.

Are we sure that getting +1 from the Signum will overrule the Plasma Cannon blowing up on a natural roll of one? Is this in the FAQ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 greatbigtree wrote:
There is some reason to take mixed weapons in Dev squads now.

This thread has convinced me. My first two Dev squads will have 2 Heavy Bolters, one Missile Launcher and one Plasma Cannon. Both the HBs will go into one Combat Squad, and the ML & PC will go in the other Combat Squad along with the Sargent. And I'll just use the Signums to shoot two blow-up proof Overcharged Plasma Cannons every turn. The other Dev squad will get 2 Missile Launchers and 2 Plasma Cannons. The MLs go in one CS and the PCs in the other. One PC will be blow up proof and the other I'll just take my significantly improved chances.

phydaux wrote:

Are we sure that getting +1 from the Signum will overrule the Plasma Cannon blowing up on a natural roll of one? Is this in the FAQ?

OMG, yes its in the FAQs In the designers commentary which was released about 12 months ago ! I cant believe this is still being questioned.

Q: When making a hit roll with a
supercharged plasma weapon, do you
determine whether a ‘1’ was rolled before
or after applying re-rolls and modifiers?
A: You apply all re-rolls and modifiers first.

For example, if, after re-rolls and modifiers,
the final result is then a 1 (or counts as a 1, as
explained above), then the supercharged plasma
weapon injures or kills the firer.