Command Point Reroll

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**Nixalys**

This argument came up for fun recently and we were unsure if there were any rules stopping us from doing this. Can you use the command re-roll stratagem to reroll a warlord trait roll that lets you get back a command point on a 5+ for a different stratagem that was recently used, and then use your warlord trait on the command re-rolls stratagem that was just used to try and get that point back as well? We realize this is not efficient and can technically net you an even greater loss of command points but wanted to know.

**JohnnyHell**

Don’t see why not, but I don’t see why you would. Chances are you’ll lose more Command Points than you would otherwise.

**p5freak**

Nixalys wrote:
This argument came up for fun recently and we were unsure if there were any rules stopping us from doing this. Can you use the command re-roll stratagem to reroll a warlord trait roll that lets you get back a command point on a 5+ for a different stratagem that was recently used, and then use your warlord trait on the command re-rolls stratagem that was just used to try and get that point back as well? We realize this is not efficient and can technically net you an even greater loss of command points but wanted to know.

You can, but you can only use the re-roll strat once inside a phase. Outside of a phase you can use it as many times as you want, infinitely (until you run out of CP). Even if you roll a 5+ every time you wont gain any CP, because the re-roll strat costs you 1 CP. It does work (sort of) when you have a relic which also lets you roll to get 1 CP. I have written this in another thread :

There is a way, but its not really infinite. You have AM grand strategist and BA veritas vitae, for example. Now you use a strat outside of a phase. You get to roll two new dice, one for the grand strategist and one for the veritas vitae. Lets say you roll a 5 and a 1. You get 1 CP. Now you use the re-roll strat to re-roll the 1. You get two new dice, because you used a strat. If you get a 5 and a 4 you get 1 CP. You use the re-roll strat to re-roll the 4..... You can do this infinitely, as long as you roll a 5 your CP stay the same. This ends when you roll 5+ on both dice. If you roll less than 5 on both dice you can re-roll both with the re-roll strat, but it costs you 2 CP. Its outside of a phase, so you can use the re-roll strat as many times as you want, or you run out of CP. But you get four new dice and for every 5+ you get 1 CP.

If you have kurovs aquila you can play this game once, because the re-roll strat is used inside a phase, thus its only one time use.

**BaconCatBug**

Nixalys wrote:
This argument came up for fun recently and we were unsure if there were any rules stopping us from doing this. Can you use the command re-roll stratagem to reroll a warlord trait roll that lets you get back a command point on a 5+ for a different stratagem that was recently used, and then use your warlord trait on the command re-rolls stratagem that was just used to try and get that point back as well? We realize this is not efficient and can technically net you an even greater loss of command points but wanted to know.

You can never re-roll a re-roll, however since he is re-rolling two different dice, it's legal. The Limits of Command errata don't apply to those rolls.

**Sunny Side Up**

As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.

**BaconCatBug**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.

Except Chapter Approved stops that.

**Sunny Side Up**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.
Except Chapter Approved stops that.

Really? Good to know. How so?

**BaconCatBug**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.
Except Chapter Approved stops that.

Really? Good to know. How so?

Limits of Command rule for Matched Play.

**Sunny Side Up**

BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.
Except Chapter Approved stops that.

Really? Good to know. How so?
Limits of Command rule for Matched Play.

That's just Matched Play and doesn't apply to most games of 40K. And even than, it get's into the debate of when "the battle begins".

**BaconCatBug**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
Sunny Side Up wrote:
As said, you can never re-roll a re-roll for any reason, stratagem ootherwise.

But outside the phase, you can use the re-roll stratagem indefinitely (as long as you have CP).

The Grand Strategist/Animus Vitae pre-1st-turn CP charge up largely works this way.
Except Chapter Approved stops that.

Really? Good to know. How so?
Limits of Command rule for Matched Play.

That's just Matched Play and doesn't apply to most games of 40K. And even than, it get's into the debate of when "the battle begins".

Pretty sure the majority of games are matched play. I doubt the majority of games are Narrative Missions with Battleforged Armies. And there is an FAQ about "the battle begins".

**Sunny Side Up**

BaconCatBug wrote:
And there is an FAQ about "the battle begins".

Cool. Where?

**BaconCatBug**

Sunny Side Up wrote:
BaconCatBug wrote:
And there is an FAQ about "the battle begins".

Cool. Where?

Rulebook FAQ

Q: Certain abilities and Stratagems are used ‘before the battle’. When specifically is this?
A: The game begins when players start the Deployment step of a mission – all abilities and Stratagems that are used ‘before the battle’ must be used before then.

Remember that if both players have ‘before the battle’ abilities they wish to use, and the rules themselves do not explicitly say in which order they should be resolved, the players should roll off – the winner decides in what order they are resolved.

**Sunny Side Up**

Yes. But Stratagems "at the beginning of the first battle round, but before the first turn" such as Alpha Legion/Raven Guard Infiltration or Preliminary Bombardment (or AdMech Canticles, etc..) are after that point (after deployment, seizing initiative, etc..) but outside a phase, so you can use those to kickstart to CP farm outside of the phase, while you obviously wouldn't be able to do the same with stratagems before the battle (e.g. extra relics).

There would be little point to things like Preliminary Bombardment, if they'd have to happen before the deployment step earmarked as the beginning of the battle.

You wouldn't be able to use either Grand Strategist or Veritas Vitae before deploying the models in the first place anyhow .. so deployment must've started.