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When I was reading Soul Wars it is mentioned that in Glymmsforge, the Realm of Death, she has one of the three main religious sites dedicated to her and that her worshippers daub their faces with vine tatoos. Since we only meet human and dwarves in the city my take from this that they had to be human. Also, if she has a shrine in the realm of death that insinuates that most cities of order must also have similar temples. Plus I think some of the Malign Portents POV mention humans that consider Allarielle to be a Goddess.

But am I misremembering here? Allarielle doesn’t seem to care about anyone other than the Sylvaneth. She doesn’t help free the Elves from Slannesh. She casts out the Wanderers. Considering that she was the Queen of the elves and all the other Elven Gods REALLY care about this I take that to mean that she really must view non Sylvaneth with disdain. So why worship a God that hates you? I mean I am sure that Wardens of the Everqueen states that Nurgle benefits enormously from all the human tribes giving up on Alareille because she goes despondent and abandons them.

Shes never shown doing anything that doesn’t directly help the Sylvaneth. In fact she’s so determined not be involved with the mortals that rather make herself Queen of the cities in Ghyran so she can control what they do she gifts them to Sigmar, palming off the responsibility to Sigmar for protecting and running them and then complains when they start industrial expansion into her woods. If you think about it, that is a policy of segregation, she’s not interested in people living at one with nature like wood elves; she literally kicked them out.

I mean as an aside one story I would love GW to do would be to have Morathi smack talk Alarielle about how “I’ve done more to save our kind than you ever did and you call me a monster”.

Plus Alarielle is being incredibly stupid as a God to spurn followers, which gives her more power and who are going to be more easily swayed by the likes of Morathi or even Chaos/Nagash. I mean you read Soul Wars and the lengths that Nagash goes to, his obsession, with controlling as many followers as possible and the woven gods schemes to boost their followers are all totally at odds with Alarielles behaviour.

You then compare her to Sigmar who is a sound dude trying to save the world from Chaos and doesn’t have this narrow self interest that Allarielle does. He actually takes the Free People under his protection. He’s clearly a God worth worshipping. So I don’t get why you would worship Allarielle when that’s the benchmark.

She's a force of nature whose aid is what created the 'Seeds of Hope' and while she doesn't really seem to be of the 'goody two-shoes' variety, it seems that she's deified as just a kind of 'nature goddess'. She neither helps nor actively hinders.

It's also worth mentioning that even before the End Times, Ariel(the Wood Elf godbeing that Alarielle had basically stuffed into her during the End Times) was starting to become very...off. Her and Orion both seemed to be detaching themselves from the natural order of things, becoming less and less the avatars of Isha and Kurnous(respectively) and more becoming Isha and Kurnous.

I don't know how much sense that explanation made, but that's going off what we've seen.

 Kanluwen wrote:
She's a force of nature whose aid is what created the 'Seeds of Hope' and while she doesn't really seem to be of the 'goody two-shoes' variety, it seems that she's deified as just a kind of 'nature goddess'. She neither helps nor actively hinders.

It's also worth mentioning that even before the End Times, Ariel(the Wood Elf godbeing that Alarielle had basically stuffed into her during the End Times) was starting to become very...off. Her and Orion both seemed to be detaching themselves from the natural order of things, becoming less and less the avatars of Isha and Kurnous(respectively) and more becoming Isha and Kurnous.

I don't know how much sense that explanation made, but that's going off what we've seen.

But the Gods in AoS aren’t abrstract things worshipped for the sake of it. They can and do give real power and aid to their followers. Not just Chaos either. Granted Nagash and Morathis notion of what this is can be a little messed up but there are very tangible reasons to follow worshipping “Khaine” or Nagash. Iam going to worship the God that can and in the case of Sigmae does protect me and will send warriors to my aid. Not the Goddess who actively spurns anyone who isn’t a tree even if you’re most tree hugging wood elf. You don’t worship a God that hates you and gives nothing back.

It’s not goody two shoes to want more people to worship you and follow your way of life. But it’s outright mean to basically say “These smooth skins can burn for all I care” and pretty much build a massive wall to keep them out of her forests. It’s being mean for the sake of being mean. Legitimately Marathi has actually done more to save the realms than Allarielle; even though she’s a villain. Making those cities is a bit like gifting a car and then telling the receiver that they have to run it, pay the insurance, there’s a chance it’ll get stolen or keyed because of the neighbourhood and being like “good luck guys”. That is basically what Allarielle did. If Sigmar wasn’t protecting those cities anyone could kill or enslave all the mortals in them. That’s clearly offloading any responsibility and at worst it puts them in danger. What if one day Nagash takes back all the Stormcast souls? Well those seeds of hope will burn. “Not my problem. Not a Sylvaneth issue.” My point is that this is callous behaviour.

A Goddess who feels no obligation towards people who literally put their faith in her isn’t worth worshipping.

People tend to worship the gods of their region where they are born. If a human is born in Ghyran, that vast mortal realm, its not surprising that they would worship the regional deity.

Plus Alarielle is being incredibly stupid as a God to spurn followers, which gives her more power and who are going to be more easily swayed by the likes of Morathi or even Chaos/Nagash. 

She doesn't spurn them at all. It sounds like all your knowledge of Alarielle is pre-Age of Hope when she was depressed and isolationist due to all her past suffering and Nurgle's influence on her realm.

Once the Seeds of Hope campaign was over she did a 180 on her personality with accepting non-Sylvaneth and helping mortals worshippers, she reconciled with the Wanderers after the war(they abandoned her, by the way. She never kicked them out) and just the Malign Portents short story shows she won't outright kill those who actively defile her lands as the Greywater force did and looks toward the bigger picture.

Her realm is full of mortal worshippers with notable examples being the numerous knightly orders that treat her like as a noble goddess ala Lady of Lake, we see one such knight in Spear of Shadows and got his own spin-off story afterwards.

People worshipping outside the life realm are obviously doing it because of the power of life she represents as there's examples of natural resources from Ghyran not only helping nature in arid lands but have significant healing properties to boot.

Baron Klatz wrote:

Plus Alarielle is being incredibly stupid as a God to spurn followers, which gives her more power and who are going to be more easily swayed by the likes of Morathi or even Chaos/Nagash. 

She doesn't spurn them at all. It sounds like all your knowledge of Alarielle is pre-Age of Hope when she was depressed and isolationist due to all her past suffering and Nurgle's influence on her realm.

Once the Seeds of Hope campaign was over she did a 180 on her personality with accepting non-Sylvaneth and helping mortals worshippers, she reconciled with the Wanderers after the war and just the Malign Portents short story shows she won't outright kill those who actively defile her lands as the Greywater force did and looks toward the bigger picture.

Her realm is full of mortal worshippers with notable examples being the numerous knightly orders that treat her like as a noble goddess ala Lady of Lake, we see one such knight in Spear of Shadows and got his own spin-off story afterwards.

People worshipping outside the life realm are obviously doing it because of the power of life she represents as there's examples of natural resources from Ghyran not only helping nature in arid lands but have significant healing properties to boot.

The only things I’ve read with Alarielle post realm gate wars is that she built the Seeds of Hope and shows up in a Malign Portents story where she dresses down some Dwarves before suggesting they take on Nagash. The realmgate books only talk about her calling together disparate Sylvaneth I don’t think the Wanderers are really mentioned. Even in the Realmgate wars there’s only one POV story with her and it’s pretty much “I wa swear, now I need to kill Nurgle” she doesn’t seem to have any regrets or reflect on the mortals at all. When she talks about bringing the clans together and such she means the Sylvaneth.

I am not saying that’s she’s evil and would kill people or be unwilling to go fight Nagash. But GW has not presented a credible reason why you would worship her but not Sigmar. I mean the whole exchange with those Dwarves shows that she really wants nothing to do with these people except when forced by circumstance. I mean think about it, why on earth does a character arguably second only to Sigmar need to browbeat the armies of order into following her. It should not even be a question and that it’s not already set up that way indicates that she’s not involved with them normally. A vacuum in which, again, Morathi glides in to exploit.

I haven’t read the story about the Knight. What was it called? I still don’t see why you would have that opinion of Allarielle when every action she has taken has only been to help her chosen people; she has never (unlike Sigmar who could have just stayed in Azyr) done anything that did not also benefit the Sylvaneth.

If she cared about the elves then why didn’t she help free them from Slannesh? Plus the wanderers probably abandoned her because she turned away from them; even a lot of the Sylvaneth abandoned her because she wasn’t willing to fight Chaos.

I’ll put it this way. Sigmar uses his Stormcast Eternals to purge the lands of chaos so that mortals are protected can thrive in cities. Allarielle wants to use the Sylvaneth to protect Sylvaneth to take back them trees so she can make more Sylvaneth. If she had any stake in this whole city project then she wouldn’t have to coerce them into joining her to fight Nagash.

Because she doesn't consider herself an Aelf anymore. Seriously, this is stuff that we got at the start of AoS.

This is, again, tying into the whole thing about Ariel and Orion--they were starting to drift further and further from their Asrai side of things when the whole 'cycle' of birth/rebirth was happening--when that stopped happening(remember that Orion required a sacrifice to come into being and Ariel basically hibernated for half the year while he was 'dead') the god side of them exerted itself more and more and more.


In any regards, you don't have to look far to get an idea as to what the deal is here. They're not worshiping Alarielle in her guise as a loving, kind protector. They're worshiping Alarielle in her guise as the goddess of nature, protector of Life.

She was depressed and mentally unstable at the time. The woes of the World That Was' destruction still weighed on her mind, her realm was rotting from Nurgle's influence, the pantheon was breaking and the mortals in her realm(which included aelves like the Wanderers) abandoned her with only the Sylvaneth staying to fight the hordes of plague daemons.

Why would she care for a people(or even just mortals in general) that fled her and the life realm in her time of need? She was lost and went into isolation because of that anguish.

Also you need to reread that short story, it was mostly humans and a few Duardin from Greywater. They broke the pact, invaded her lands, killed her people and began strip mining the lands that are apart of her as she's apart of the realm of life.

She had every right to kill that industrialist force but didn't and even used her magic to stop the conflict from claiming any lives. (Here's the kicker, the famous Greywater architect that made the cities in her realm ordered the operation. In the Tzeentch tome we find out he's a Tzeentch cultist, he wanted her to start a war because of the outrageous actions they did. She didn't though because she knows there's a greater threat and those mortals aren't her enemies)

Another thing is you make it sound like the Living city was idly Palmed off because she didn't want the responsibility. This is not the case:

The Living City is a city in the Jade Kingdom of Thyria in Ghyran and the first of the Seeds of Hope. It was built by Alarielle herself after she defeated Clan Morbidus and drove them out of the Hollow Forest and restored it's forest. It took fourteen days and night of singing natural magic to make the city of great bulwarks of entwined ironoak and bedrock with towers and fortifications made of thorn-studded vines and song-forged metal. It stood atop a plateau made to watch over the forest.[1]

Since the Sylvaneth were too fey and mercurial to watch over the fortress, the Everqueen offered it to her mortal allies, providing safety in exchange for wardenship over the wondrous forest.

Lastly here's the knight story of Sir Roggen of the Order of the Furrow who are one of many Alarielle devoted knight orders.

https://www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmar/quick-reads/the-tainted-axe-eshort.html

There seems to be another Sylvaneth short story that gives a modern view on Alarielle so you should probably check it out as well.

Baron Klatz wrote:
She was depressed and mentally unstable at the time. The woes of the World That Was' destruction still weighed on her mind, her realm was rotting from Nurgle's influence, the pantheon was breaking and the mortals in her realm(which included aelves like the Wanderers) abandoned her with only the Sylvaneth staying to fight the hordes of plague daemons.

The Wanderers bit is...interesting.

The survivors had fled since they were starting to be affected by Nurgle's plagues. It's heavily implied that they fled to Azyr to regroup but then the Realmgates got locked down and they couldn't return.

Doesn't change that they left, but nor did the fact that just as many stayed and fought alongside the Sylvaneth it seemed.

Really can't blame them. Plagues everywhere that only the Sylvaneth would've been able to handle and the pantheon that protected them was gone leaving them mere fodder in Nurgle's rot-bloated hands.

At least the ending of the campaign showed everything was well again between them and the Wanderers continued to aid the realms recovery from chaos.

Oh, and there's also a Hallowed knight's recollection of fighting alongside Sylvaneth and Duardin known as Rootkings who are natural life realm inhabitants. So Alarielle has devoted Duardin followers as well.

Not all of the mortals fled when Nurgle attacked the life realm. Some turned traitor and sided with Nurgle in hope of being spared.

Most of what I read on Alarielle comes from the old core rulebook, the realm gate war books, the Sylvaneth Battletome and the Legends book. Which is the vast bulk of material on this character. So most of that stresses her connection with the Sylvaner to the near total exclusion of everything else and in the early lore this is explicit. It’s why she wanted to plant trees to remind her of what she lost and left Sigmars pantheon. Then even when she does enter her war aspect it’s mostly focused on “I hates Nurgle”. So Iam not convinced that it’s been clearly spelt out that Alarielle is interested in non Sylvaneth. She only seems to help Sigmars project because it aids her in the War of Life, not because she feels any kind of concern or responsibility towards non Sylvaneth. Yes, you can have people who think she cares; but objectively I don’t think she’s shown doing anything which warrants this.

She’s not an elf. But neither are Malerion, Morathi, Teclis and Tyrion. But they all still consider the Elves their people. Nagash has some notion of who he was and since Alarielle appears as a humanoid and remembers losing the trees I find it very unlikely that she does not know she was an elf. She literally cared more about the trees than the people since she didn’t help free them from Slannesh.

It kind of is palming off the responsibility. Oh, I can’t guard them with Sylvaneth (even though Sylvaneth are sentient and live in static communes and you are a Goddess), so I’ll have Sigmar rule the city instead. If she considered them her people she wouldn’t pass the buck to another God who might for example let crazy “Khaine” worshippers in.... That story clearly shows that Allarielle normally doesn’t involve herself like Signar does in the affairs of mortals.

Again you have to contrast this with Sigmar where it’s repeatedly stated that he wants to save the mortal realms and everyone in them; the Stormcast are a means to an end not an end itself like the Sylvaneth. He is only fighting Death and Destruction because they’re being unreasonable. You don’t hear this from Allarielle. She is an associate in Sigmars project only to purge Ghyran and save the Sylvaneth.

Alarielle is worshipped by many mortal races but like any nature/fertility goddess she can be fickle - if you want your crops to grow ot the rains to come - talk to her- she might not listen but she might do, she might ask that you bury your dead to feed her children but deos not demand vast cathedrals.

However unlike say Nagash or Sigmar - she is unlikely to dictate much to you - she is not going to bother with your day to day life, demand lots of worship etc etc

Don't chop down trees, poullte the marshland or the like and she and the Sylvaneth will be helpful - however do poullte and destory as those at Greywater do in the Malign Portetns story (under the direction of a secret servant of Tzeentch no less) hence her anger at those destroying her lands and her children are the same.

the Short Story Pantheon talks abot this a bit as do many of the novels that look at interactions between the mortals. She also distrusts Sigmar to some degree - remember that many entities see him as someone who fled and shut his gates on the rest of the Realms.

No matter. Your actions, though impetuous, led to my rebirth and reinvigoration. You reawakened me. I spent too long brooding on defeat. If you had not caused my death, I would have been destroyed.’ She swept her gaze across the empty city. ‘So much beauty here, but it is sterile, bereft of life and purpose. It saddens me,’ she said. She looked at him. ‘I believed in your vision once, but it failed. If you have come to ask me to rejoin you here, to reform the pantheon of old, I will not

A seeker after what?’ asked Alarielle. Her concern was rarely with thinking creatures of flesh. Her domain was of plants and growing things, and the wild spaces of the worlds. She knew little more of Bayla than she did of other short-lived fleshlings.

Sigmar asks her not just to fight

You were worshipped all throughout Ghyran and beyond once, my lady. You can be again. You have become warlike to respond to a time of war, but you must reach inside yourself, and find that gentler creature you once were. We need to look beyond the end of this war, and prepare for peace. If we do not, then there will be another golden age, but soon enough Chaos will return and shatter the realms anew.’

‘Not at all,’ he said. ‘I wish you to invest in them a love of all that is natural and alive, to appreciate its power and fecundity. If they learn to follow the rhythm of life’s wondrous patterns, fewer of them will be tempted to fear its end. There always will be those who are incapable of fellow feeling, or whose greed outmatches their empathy,’ he said. ‘Many others can be saved by you.’

Its the same with Nagash - see this extract from Soul Wars - he has sides that mortals can appeal to, can act as a protector as well as a destroyer etc etc.

His mind was measureless, a cosmic instrument of many parts. At any one time only small slivers of his true consciousness were active – facets of himself, moulded to conduct particular errands, while the bulk of his attentions were bent to more important matters. Idly, his awareness passed across these lesser selves, following the amethyst threads that connected them all back to him. He listened as Bal-Nagash, the Black Child, soothed the final moments of a plague-touched mother and her infant, singing to them in a high, sweet voice. He watched as Nagash-Morr, the Reaper-King, manifested upon a battlefield in some forgotten corner of Shyish, wielding scythe-blade in defence of the living and the dead alike

Sigmar can be brutal and oppressive as well as inspiring and protective.

That seems to just reinforce the problem with Alarielle. Sigmar is trying to convince her that she should try to foster and care about her mortal followers. But she herself says that she only cares about the trees and finds it hard to relate to them on any level. Indeed she uses the term “short lived flesh things” which implies a degree of disdain and that she doesn’t see them as people. I haven’t read the Pantheon story but since you didn’t quote “you know what you’ve got a point Sigmar I should give humanity another try”. In fact the one good thing she does in building the city she says that she doesn’t like it because it’s a dead thing. They would not be having this conversation if she cared about ordinary people or felt responsible for them.

Yeah but Alarielle is implied to only have a singular aspect dependent on the seasons. Nagash however is all versions and death and all Death is Nagash. So when she says “I can’t relate to the little ant people” it points to her being of one mind about this and that she isn’t like Nagash.

She does say:

I will do what I can, Sigmar Heldenhammer,’

but not saying you are totally wrong but I think a worshipper of Alarielle will expect (and receive) different things from a worshpper of Sigmar (or Nagash)

She is a not a goddess of humans (or Aelves or Duardin) she is a goddess of nature, if you keep in with her she might well help you - and thats enough for many, she will seldom interfere with you - contrast that with Sigmar, Nagash, Khaine (well Morathi).

Its a bt like the difference between our religions - they provide and demand different things which is the way to the original question.

It comes down to "What do you want? "

Oh the city she talks about in that quote is not a Seed of Hope its the city that Sigmar built to host the Pantheon- not for mortals

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Mount_Celestian