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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/15 16:23:25
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Hello, I'm getting back into the hobby after being absent a long time.
I've gotten the new edition boxed set to start out a space marine army, and need help choosing the right chapter.
I don't have the rule book yet, but want to start painting my miniatures.
What chapter(s) have the best tactics for a shooting focused army, where I'm not pushing into close combat from turn one?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/15 16:50:09
Subject: Re:Shooting marines?
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Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
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In Codex Space Marine, the most straight forward Chapter is Ultramarine with Guilliman, surround him with Devastators / Hellblasters / Aggressors / twin Storm-Cannon Leviathan Dreadnought / Rifleman Ven Dread and you get the probably the most powerful shooting army Marines can offer.
Salamander is not bad for a single reroll to hit and reroll to wound in every squad, not bad when you put one lascannon in each Tactical squads.
Dark Angel can also be one of the candidate, reroll 1s as long as you remain stationary so no need character buffs.
Nevertheless, keep in mind there are armies which will give your marine's "awesome" firepower real trouble. Like spam -1 to hit and/or decent inv saves. Prime example is Harlequin, which can army wide stacks -1 to hit to drop your accurracy down to Orks level and 4++ to stop whatever few lucky shot hitting them from harming them. If you run into this kind of armies, unless you spam stromcannon Leviathan Dread or Rifleman Ven Dread, your marine shooting list just don't have enough powerful shots to stand a chance of not getting defeated.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/15 17:00:43
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
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Raven Guard, Dark Angels, Deathwatch, Ultramarines with Guilliman (the best shooters).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/18 12:04:29
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
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There are basically three flavors of good marine shooting tactics to use:
1) I like close-ranged shooting primarily, and I want to use the new Primaris Marine line.
You want Raven Guard. Raven Guard have a -1 to hit by anyone shooting htem from over 12" away, which benefits units like Hellblasters, Intercessors who want to attack from long range. They also get a special stratagem allowing them to basically infiltrate anything, which is amazing with those new primaris Not-Terminator guys, allowing them to get into flamer range - which is where the close range element comes in.
2) I like my vehicles, I want to have tanks that do good.
Guillimans the name and Ultramarines are my game. Guilliman gives a HUGE aura buff to any UM unit within 6" which includes tanks, and the tactic/stratagem are almost irrelevant compared to how good that buff is. Guilliman strolling around with Razorbacks, maybe a trio of Predators, maybe some dreadnoughts seems to be the most common marine list that gets tournament wins.
3) I like dreadnoughts of all sorts!
Salamanders are the way to go here. They're excellent in particular with Venerable Dreadnoughts, who usually only get 1 failed hit anyway, that with the tactic they get to reroll. Make sure you include the Forgeworld Deredeo and Leviathan dreadnoughts as well as regular shooty vendreads.
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"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/18 12:26:48
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Ship's Officer
London
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I’d go with dark angels or raven guard. Possibly deathwatch, though it’s a little tricky to get the shoulder pads onto the models from the starter set - if that bothers you.
If you’re using the guys from the starter set then I think ravenguard might be your best option. Their intercessors are a genuinely good troops unit that you’ll be able to use in lots of games, even if you decide to go for another army in future once you’ve played a few games. Their hellblasters are good too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/18 14:13:19
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Out of curiosity, what are the Imperial Fits good for tactics wise?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/18 14:59:02
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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The IF tactic isn't bad in and of itself, but it's match up dependant, and not very relevant in the current meta.
Because of the way armor saves and cover works, cover benefits units with good armor saves more than it does bad armor saves. So to get the most out of the IF trait, you want to be going against lots of 2+ or 3+ saves that are sitting in cover.
So it wouldn't be a bad tactic to take vs Custodes, foot Marines, and Terminator heavy armies, along with lots of AP1 firepower, so you'd always get the most out of those weapons against those targets.
It's just not a great take all comers chapter tactic, as cover is meaningless in many matchups. You also don't pack as much of a punch as ultramarines with Roboute, or soak as much damage as ravenguard do with their -1 to hit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/19 07:45:55
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Raven Guard and Deathwatch have the advantage of both being basically black with details. Paint your models black and you can run them as Raven Guard one day and Death Watch the next. It would be like getting 2 armies for the price of one.
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I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/19 16:20:02
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Ship's Officer
London
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My marines are crimson fists. The chapter tactic is kind of decent, especially combined with things that already have some ap, like bolt rifles and assault bolters. Small enemy troop units like scouts and ramgers tend to die pretty fast.
I built a decent list around repulsors, aggressors, hellblasters and intercessors. Did pretty well at tournaments - coming 18th at the finals of the UKGT.
Crimson fists are marginally better because their relic is awesome, particularly on a Primaris Guy, essentially giving you a BA smash captain hidden amongst your lines. He gives a great (if overly-literal) counter punch to what’s otherwise a purely shooty army. I’ve experimented with a librarian and lieutenant as my second HQs. Both have merit, and I’ve sometimes run both, if taking a battalion and spearhead at 2k.
I quite like repulsors. They can carry a lot of both anti-tank and dakka, they keep my hellblasters safe and they fly, so are tough to pin down. They also reduce your drop count, which really helps as first turn is so useful for a shooty list. I also quite often charged them at scary shooty units to prevent them from firing and/or soak overwatch. I’m a bit worried that they’d be a liability now though, with knight Castellans wandering around.
Overall though I think my army would have been a bit better as dark angels. Azrael’s 4++ aura and rerolls mKe a massive difference. They’ve also got a great relic for a lieutenant, turning him from a mere buff boy into a credible cc fighter. Their chapter tactics are decent.
Most importantly, they’ve got several great stratagems that push them up a level. Being able to fall back and shoot is a huge deal for hellblasters and leviathan dreads, while the option of making hellblasters shoot for 3 damage is just awesome.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/07/19 16:32:14
Subject: Re:Shooting marines?
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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Keep in mind you dont have to stick to one chapter only. You can cherry pick from each chapter, as long as every detachment is pure, only units from one chapter. Dark angels are very good with plasma, raven guard get -1 to hit at distances longer than 12", blood angels have the melee units, ultramarines with girlyman can re-roll everything that misses, salamanders are strong with flamers and meltas.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/01 11:30:11
Subject: Shooting marines?
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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BT are good since you can take five man Crusader squads with plasma, combi plasma and a lascannon.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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