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Envision a time in the near future when we can 3D print fully assembled and painted models, even something large like a thunderhawk. Also, envision an easy modelling/painting program (along the lines of HeroForge (https://www.heroforge.com/)).

How could Games Workshop survive or thrive when technology reaches that level of ease?

Would they continue to mold plastic, or would they sell access to the modelling program and license players to own 1 to n of each squad?

As an example, would they charge $25 for a Cadian Shock Troops squad, that lets you design and print up to 5 squads (50 models)?

I know that 3D printing has been "the death of Games Workshop" for like 15 years now. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts regarding a future state where 3D printing really is easy, fast, and cheap, with the same quality we get from Games Workshop today.

We're still twenty years away from a cheap system that'd make it worth your time doing this.

Tbh over that time scale worrying about our wargaming hobby is a bit silly. We're more likely to be reduced to our constituent atoms by then.

The IP would still be protected. Sure, there are ways around this, but many people would still pay. Same deal with recasters currently.

As has always been the philosophy of Valve with steam, the key to beating the pirates is not to stamp them out, but to make the legal version simply more convenient.

Depends how the laws will shape also.
The EU is looking at some laws for copyright protection in the 3D printing space.

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Thing is, with 3D printing you would want to get rid of the whole building process and produce the miniature directly in a super cool pose and with the right weapons. I guess they could actually run 2 varieties of products for a while once 3D printing will start getting even better and cheaper. The easy to build models will become printable, while the customizable plastic molds will remain as today, untill 3D printing will completely overtake molding (but will it ever?)

I just saw an add for a 3d home printer that takes the 4 primary colors and mixes them during print for a full color printout.

The problem with 3d printers is speed and quality. I've gone through 2 spools of plastic and have yet to get anything that is a good print. I've had some that are good enough. And it takes forever to print. I'm trying to print out some wall sections for a large gothic cathedral ruin. Each wall section is about 1/4 x 2 x 3 1/4 inches and takes about an hour and a half to print.

To print the whole structure, it's going to take about 2 days.

We've got good inexpensive laser cutters now. How many people have them vs. just buying laser cut scenery?

Most people don't want to invest in the equipment even if it is a long term saving, it will need to be really cheap (i.e. Immediate savings) for most people to do that. Most people also don't want to calibrate and maintain the machine so it needs to be incredibly robust and simple (whilst also being really cheap) . We may never get there.

As for what will GW do if this situation comes to pass? Sell designs. Making designs or even just cleaning up 3D scans is way more work than most people want to do. People that would just pirate them are already buying recasts.

The big difference is that it would be much more attractive for them to update models and offer models that have niche appeal. Their profit margins would likely increase significantly if they could transition completely to that model.

Nothing stops you self-casting models at home right now if you wanted. Buy the kit, buy one sprue and selfcast.

Thing is its tricky and takes time and is more hassle than just going to the shop and buying a new one. In addition whilst there is rife problems with things like piracy in the DVD and music markets; there is still a core of people that like to support the creators. Even with all the 3D printers in the world someone still has to make, market and produce the game and models.


As said also the 3D printers are slower, not as ideal and are years away from where we can make home models to a high standard. Miniature companies do use them for masters, but they also clean them up a lot and have very high end ones to avoid the layer lines messing up the models.

Also just because there's new technology doesn't mean GW has to use it; nor that many home users will make use of it. Chances are the bulk of GW's market won't buy 3D printers unless GW specifically sold them in the shops to the customer.


Otherwise most would still buy regular plastic/resin models direct. It would be more likely that if 3D printers got good and fast that GW would use htem purely at the production end rather than at the consumer end; although even that would be likely to have a lag time since new tech is often high priced so its often a thing many established companies wait for to come down in price since they've already got a working production system.

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

Yeah people find 1 mould line a pain to remove - I'd hate to have to work on models with layer lines and having loads to clean off! For a master it works as you only have to clean it up once; for actual hobby modelling it would be a nightmare

 Scott-S6 wrote:
As for what will GW do if this situation comes to pass? Sell designs. Making designs or even just cleaning up 3D scans is way more work than most people want to do. People that would just pirate them are already buying recasts.

There are actually entire companies whose sole purpose is to sell 3d meshes (usually rigged for posing and animating in software such as Poser or Daz Studio)
and on one of those sites is already a user who has made some GW rigged models (not selling them though)

I've actually taken one of his Terminator models, equipped it with an assault cannon, posed and scaled it and printed it. It was one of my better prints that came out, acceptable but still not great quality.

I think GW would be wise to set up their own line of 3d meshes since 3d printing is only going to continue to grow and people are going to continue making the meshes and printing them anyway.

As for me, I'm more focused on getting terrain printed out for awesome looking tables. I've got plenty of figures for the time being thanks to ebay.

 Overread wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

Yeah people find 1 mould line a pain to remove - I'd hate to have to work on models with layer lines and having loads to clean off! For a master it works as you only have to clean it up once; for actual hobby modelling it would be a nightmare

Even if your printer is sufficiently high resolution that layers aren't a problem you have the support structure to clean up.

Here's an example of 3D printed masters to use to make resin moulds.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

I didn't say 40k 32mm miniatures in all honesty, but they sure are capable. And of course they are cleaned up, I mean, I showed the finised product. It's like saying that you play 40k with miniatures in their blisters, not built and painted

Still, we have a couple of years still to get even better 3D printers that use even other techniques.

A different approach to 3D printing could be this: GW shops have official GW 3D printers. With their specific material, specific way of assembling... so that they are perfect for the job. Then people would just order models directly from the shop and they will get their miniatures, cutting down on distribution costs significantly. This way shops would still have a place and people will have a hassle free experience.

I keep hering the 20 year stuff and not feasable. Yet i keep seeing tanks printed that you cant easily tell the difference.

The time argument is unrealistic.

A lot of companies are 3d printing the master models and then using other methods to mass produce. Quality prints are expensive. Also the Printing process and cleaning the print is still too time consuming to be a realistic way to print at home. Not to mention how fragile the prints can be or how messy the whole process can be.

By the time 3d printing at home would be viable most of us will be too old to play.

The quality and time factor are not an issue really, over the years those will improve, if 3d printing becomes a every day use type of thing. For every Google there's a thousand minidisc players.

 ziggurattt wrote:
Envision a time in the near future when we can 3D print fully assembled and painted models, even something large like a thunderhawk. Also, envision an easy modelling/painting program (along the lines of HeroForge (https://www.heroforge.com/)).

How could Games Workshop survive or thrive when technology reaches that level of ease?

Would they continue to mold plastic, or would they sell access to the modelling program and license players to own 1 to n of each squad?

As an example, would they charge $25 for a Cadian Shock Troops squad, that lets you design and print up to 5 squads (50 models)?

I know that 3D printing has been "the death of Games Workshop" for like 15 years now. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts regarding a future state where 3D printing really is easy, fast, and cheap, with the same quality we get from Games Workshop today.

I think that 3D printing is "the future!" but I don't think it will kill game figure producers. They can sell the formats, and save on producing, warehousing, shipping, etc. It will be a big change, but in many ways it will alow them to shed major cost centers.

How many people commenting here that 3D printing will be in every home have used their home printers to print out the entire W40k rulebook?

We have paper printers in every home. People largely don't print out mass produced items because it's cheaper, faster and easier to just buy mass produced books from retailers. They print "custom" pieces such as letters and even the occasional essay.

That translates to 3D printing. Mass production will always, always be cheaper, faster and better quality than home production. Even if 3D printing becomes cheaper than traditional mass production methods, companies will simply 3D print large volumes in mass 3D printers cheaper, faster and in better quality than home 3D printers.

When it comes to custom parts... now we're talking. 3D printing custom shoulder pads could easily become the norm. Accessories, custom heroes. Anything that is fairly unique to you. That's what 3D printing will excel at.

If people are worried about mold lines, go for a DLP printer instead https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YrUQOYLoK0&feature=youtu.be

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

Yeah people find 1 mould line a pain to remove - I'd hate to have to work on models with layer lines and having loads to clean off! For a master it works as you only have to clean it up once; for actual hobby modelling it would be a nightmare

Even if your printer is sufficiently high resolution that layers aren't a problem you have the support structure to clean up.

Here's an example of 3D printed masters to use to make resin moulds.

I know there is a fdm printers with duel nozzles that can do a water dissolving support structure which is cool. probably not possible at all with dlp printers though.

honestly even at the relatively affordable 500$ range its still hours worth of print time for a single color miniature. its not worth it for big hoard armies. fantastic for small 5-10 model skirmish games though. id say gw will be pretty much safe until literal star trek replicators are a thing.

Reemule wrote:
I keep hering the 20 year stuff and not feasable. Yet i keep seeing tanks printed that you cant easily tell the difference.

The time argument is unrealistic.

I imagine that tanks are one of the easier models to print. They're bigger and, depending on the model, are a simplistic shape.

I just want to reach a point where I can print specific model pieces. I want my box of grots.

CapRichard wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

CapRichard wrote:

Still, if you want some example of today's tech, the Wanhao Duplicator 7 is around 500-600€/$ and can do minatures fine

Pretty misleading example since it's oversize and has been thoroughly cleaned up.

I didn't say 40k 32mm miniatures in all honesty, but they sure are capable. And of course they are cleaned up, I mean, I showed the finised product. It's like saying that you play 40k with miniatures in their blisters, not built and painted

Still, we have a couple of years still to get even better 3D printers that use even other techniques.

A different approach to 3D printing could be this: GW shops have official GW 3D printers. With their specific material, specific way of assembling... so that they are perfect for the job. Then people would just order models directly from the shop and they will get their miniatures, cutting down on distribution costs significantly. This way shops would still have a place and people will have a hassle free experience.

The reason that showing a cleaned up miniature is disingenuous is because people will look at it and think that's how it comes out of the printer. Show them the mini with support structure so attached and they'll realise that it's got way more clean up than they think.

And showing a mini that they'd reasonably expect to be 32mm that's been printed oversize is just misleading.

Plastic injection molding is a lot cheaper and faster than 3d printing. The tools are expensive but it's a one off cost. So for bulk pruduction 3d printing is not the future (example ork boyz, primaris marines etc.). For small batch production 3d printing might possibly compete with metal or resin casting if the quality gets high enough

 Scott-S6 wrote:

The reason that showing a cleaned up miniature is disingenuous is because people will look at it and think that's how it comes out of the printer. Show them the mini with support structure so attached and they'll realise that it's got way more clean up than they think.

And showing a mini that they'd reasonably expect to be 32mm that's been printed oversize is just misleading.

Ok, next time will be more careful then.

I'm actually about to print a Chaos Warhound Titan at the start of the month. I bought a printer earlier this year so I could make Props and Armor for my Cosplays and I've been loving it. It takes a lot of practice, but it's fun and can lead to great results if you put in the finishing work after the print.

The smallest I've been able to print and still actually able to finish properly is a set of Chaos Themed Objective Markers and a few sets of Web Shooters for my Spidey cosplays. But even the objective Markers and Web Shooters took about 2 hours of Sanding before I started painting. I'd hate to try and 3D print a Squad of 40 Cultists! I just put 15 hours of Sanding into a Dr Doom mask.

I think it works best as it currently is to print special parts for characters(Weapons, and what have you) or to print centrepiece models or accessories, but it definitely is not far off from doing some cool stuff for our hobby.

Lego, which probably produces orders of magnitude more than GW, uses injection mold casting just like GW.

So I think the next 2-4 years will be telling. We have cheap SLA printers now (~$500) and they are becoming more common but are very difficult to use. The liquid resin is messy and extremely toxic; the fumes can be an issue also.

However the technology will improve and get better so it will be interesting to see what happens in the near future.

To all of the "they're showing a cleaned up model and it's not a fair comparison" comments. Yes the supports had to be removed and then the connection points of those supports sanded down but honestly (speaking from personal experience here with a FDM printer) it is still less work than assembling the GW model and then sanding down all of the mold lines those have. So the two are very comparable in my experience. And if you are fine with the assembly most models can be printed in pieces without supports and then assembled like a normal GW model.

The comments about mass production are true up to a point but the examples used (Lego and GW) both charge a lot for their respective IP's over the cost of manufacture. It's not a comparison between the cost of mass producing a squad of space marines and 3D printing the squad. The comparison is what GW sells that squad for and what it costs to 3D print the same squad, and even right now with liquid resin being on the expensive side it only costs about $1 to print a Space Marine sized model on a SLA printer. GW charges like $35-$40 for a tactical squad now I believe, so using an SLA printer is 3-4 times cheaper. (That comparison does not address getting the 3D models to print of course)

The terminator doesn't look too bad, but I think I can do better once I find the sweet spot in my printer's settings. It does stink that I'm no good with a camera and the closeup came out blury.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/960672-3D%20prints.html
https://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/960673-Blury%20closeup.html

The Rhino is pretty cool.

 Ratius wrote:
The Rhino is pretty cool.

As was mentioned, printing the bigger models is a lot easier. Only problem with the rhino is the person who made the model wasn't precise with the top and side hatches/doors (they just eyeballed when modelling) so GW bits won't fit on it. Also, when I separated the top hatch to later be able to put a turret on it, my printer auto-closed the hole so I had to try to cut it open again which didn't work to well.

Fortunately I was able to find a lot of pieces on Thingiverse so I can print a rhino base and be able to swap it out as a pred, whirlwind or razorback as needed. Still not sure about the front top hatches on it though for adding a hunter-killer or storm bolter but I'm not too worried about it since I currently have 6 actual GW rhinos (Ebay can be great sometimes)

I'm thinking since printing troops doesn't hold the same quality as GW models, I could pose them in various lying positions and print me out a bunch and use them to replace casualties during the game.

There are a few problems for miniatures companies and 3d printing that would need to be worked out:

1) finding a way to limit printing runs into all sorts of issues that are basically dystopian future. Kindle and Apple stores have both caught plenty of flack for "selling" people books that they later remotely kill. Forcing a licensed pattern to only be used online, or to kill itself after x# of prints, is just going to have the market flooded with exact free copies.

2) To keep profits in share-holder pleasing rises; each pattern would be rediculously expensive for the end user. More expensive rules(especially how poorly GW writes them) will be even worse of an option.

3) as 3d printing tech gets better and more affordable; we will already start to see printed models before GW could even start to roll out licenced patterns.

4) There would be absolutely no way to distinguish an officially licensed pattern and a duplicate; this, alone, would kill any chance of licensed patterns.