Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The Stratagem allows you to, At the end of your opponent's Charge phase, a HARLEQUINS CHARACTER can make a Heroic Intervention at 6" instead of 3".

If your opponent didn't declare any charges, was there still a charge phase and can he still heroic intervention in to a unit within 6" and attack it in the fight phase?

Yes and yes. Your opponent not charging doesn’t negate the phase.

Agreed, there's a charge phase even if a player elects not to use it to actually charge, and you'd get to use the strataegem there to get your Harlie character a 6" heroic intervention.

As stated, the phase still happened, even if no-one makes a charge.

I would just like to point out a quick point. Not necessarily trying to argue it but it is something to consider. Heroic intervention is done after the enemy has finished all of their charge moves. If a unit doesn't charge is it considered to have made any charge moves? If the answer is no they didn't make charge moves then this strategem would not go off as you can only heroic intervention after the enemy has finished charge moves.

Finishing 0 charge moves is still finishing all your charge moves.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Finishing 0 charge moves is still finishing all your charge moves.

Well no actually. The correct order is 1. choose unit to charge with. 2. Choose targets. 3. Overwatch. 4. Make charge move. As per the 40k rulebook. Therefore you if you didn't pick a unit to fight with and you didn't choose your target then you cannot make a charge move therefore there are no charge moves and the strategem can't be used. Also I think I am changing my stance on not necessarily defending this idea, to this is how I would play this scenario.

Again, even if you don't make any charge moves, and don't go though those steps, you've still "completed all" your "charge moves" at the end of the phase, even if you made 0 charge moves.

However, what you state could be true, for a specific value of true, so it's down to GW's sloppy ambiguous writing again.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
Again, even if you don't make any charge moves, and don't go though those steps, you've still "completed all" your "charge moves" at the end of the phase, even if you made 0 charge moves.

However, what you state could be true, for a specific value of true, so it's down to GW's sloppy ambiguous writing again.

doesn't it always seem to come down to this :/ smh

I agree with BCB on this. Once you complete the charge phase, the enemy can Heroic Intervene even if you did not charge.

A;sp agreed. The Battle Primer lists the Charge phase as a definite phase in the turn. It exists whether or not the player chooses to take advantage of it. Otherwise, you don't ever get to the Fight Phase, Morale Phase or the end of the turn. All your charge moves must be completed, even if you had no charge moves, in order to reach the end of the Charge Phase.

I'd like to bring light to it in a slightly different scenario because I believe it may change peoples minds. Heroic intervention is meant to react to a charge and if one doesn't occur I don't think you're supposed to be able to heroic intervention. Here is the scenario:

Unit A of tyranids. Charges your Unit B of harlequins unit. Character C of harlequins is 7" away. NO heroic intervention strategem or regular. However the tyranid unit A rolls all 1s. and the Harlequin unit B rolls all 1s. They sit there. next turn the harlequin character C moves up 2 inches to within 5" and the player forgets to charge. Fight phase happens and once again both players fail to kill any models. back to tyranid players turn. He starts the charge phase but charges with no one and he only has this 1 combat.

Can the harlequin character now heroic intervention into an existing combat even though were no charge moves? I would say no. Just as if there were no charge moves if Unit A was not engaged but had not issued any charges.

Tyranids codex update 1.1 says :

A unit only counts as having charged if they made a
charge move.

If you dont make a charge move you didnt charge. Thus you didnt complete any charge moves. The charge phase does happen, but no heroic intervention can be done when no units charge. And if you charge and fail the roll you didnt charge either, so again, no heroic intervention.

Q: When a unit is chosen to make a charge move and fails the
charge, do they still count as having charged? Specifically, can
a unit that has failed a charge move be chosen to pile in – and
potentially consolidate – towards the enemy?
A: A unit only counts as having charged if they made a
charge move. If a charge fails, and no models make a
charge move, they do not count as having charged. As
such, they cannot be chosen to fight in the Fight phase
(and so cannot pile in or consolidate) unless an enemy
unit moves within 1" of them.

You completed 0 charge moves.

This is actually a legitimate issue that needs a clarification FAQ.

No, you dont. You cant complete what you didnt start.

So by that logic you can't fight, because you never completed your charge phase.

Okay, we have as a character the Solitaire Slowon D'Uptake, who finds himself too far away to heroically intervene the first turn, but he starts to haul butt toward the unit of Harlies (let's say that Unit B is actually he good friend Shadowseer Lament C'Ranstonn. He's moving in to save his buddy.

Second turn, we hit the charge phase. You go through all phases each turn. So, we have as steps
1) Choose Unit to Charge With
2) Choose Targets
3) Overwatch
4) Make Charge Move

You are explicitly told "Once you've moved all the models in the charging unit, choose another eligible unit and repeat the above procedure until all eligible units that you want to make charge moves have done so."

Heroic Invervention says "Aftger the enemy has completed all of their charge moves, any of your CHARACTERS that are within 3" of an enemy unit may perform a Heroic Intervention."

In order to complete the charge phase, you have to have completed your charge moves. Even if you do not charge, you are in the phase and hit the steps - select someone to charge. If you don't select any, then all your units have completed their charge moves (of which there were none); all units having completed their charge moves triggers the condition where you can do a Heroic Intgervention.

You go through the process, nobody declares a charge, you have completed all your charge moves, and Solitaire Slowon D'Uptake can Heroically intervene to save the life of his friend Shadowseer Lament C'Ranstonn..