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Hello everyone,

I'm starting to build a new army from the Renegades and Heretics faction. The background will be set in a renegade IG regiment, specifically a Death Korps of Krieg regiment taking control of an imperial world, helped by forces of chaos. I called all that Heretic Uprising . Besides the lore factor, I also want to create a semi-competitive list around this idea, and this is what I came up to:

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Renegades & Heretics) [52 PL, 638pts] ++

Chaos Covenant: Covenant of Tzeentch

+ HQ +

Malefic Lord [4 PL, 80pts]: Creeping Terror, Warp Flux

Renegade Commander [3 PL, 25pts]: 2. Inspiring Leader, Brutal Assault weapon, Laspistol, Warlord

+ Elites +

Renegade Disciple Squad [9 PL, 91pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Lasgun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Heavy bolter
. 9x Disciple with Lasgun
. Disciple with Voxcaster: Autogun, Vox-caster

Renegade Disciple Squad [9 PL, 91pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Lasgun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Heavy bolter
. 9x Disciple with Lasgun
. Disciple with Voxcaster: Autogun, Vox-caster

Renegade Disciple Squad [9 PL, 91pts]: Krak grenade
. Disciple Champion: Lasgun
. Disciple Heavy Weapon Team: 2x Disciple, Heavy bolter
. 9x Disciple with Lasgun
. Disciple with Voxcaster: Autogun, Vox-caster

+ Heavy Support +

Malcador Heavy Tank [15 PL, 236pts]: Autocannon, Battle Canon, Heavy bolter, Heavy Stubber

Renegade Heavy Weapons Squad [3 PL, 24pts]
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar
. Renegade Weapon Team: Lasgun, Mortar

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [32 PL, 546pts] ++

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power maul

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 70pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

+ Troops +

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 90pts]: 4x Chainsword and bolt pistol, Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 90pts]: 4x Chainsword and bolt pistol, Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

Khorne Berzerkers [5 PL, 90pts]: 4x Chainsword and bolt pistol, Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 130pts]: Mark of Khorne, Power scourge, Reaper autocannon

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Chaos - Questor Traitoris) [43 PL, 816pts] ++

+ Lord of War +

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Armigers [9 PL, 174pts]
. Renegade Armiger: Heavy stubber, Two armiger autocannons

Renegade Knight [25 PL, 468pts]: Heavy stubber, Reaper chainsword, Stormspear Rocket Pod
. Rapid-fire battle cannon and heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon

++ Total: [127 PL, 2000pts] ++


I like the idea of Disciple squads, hitting on +3 fits with the concept of renegade Death Korps. Also, being able to include heavy weapons team on them gives quite more fire power. But I'm mainly concerned about the CSM section of the army. I don't know if 5 man squad of Berzerkers without dedicated transport will work.

What do you think about the list? Would you change something (or everything)? Can I build this list earning more command points? I wait for your thoughts and answers.

Greetings

IMO those Berzerkers are more or less toast against many armies, though the knights do pose a shootier threat that may distract a bit. However, against the right (or wrong, depending on perspective) opponent, they may have enough shooting for all of it. Looks fun, if nothing else.

I could rework the CSM battalion. Instead of three 5 man berzerkers units I could include the following:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [41 PL, 546pts] ++

Legion: World Eaters

+ HQ +

Dark Apostle [5 PL, 76pts]: Bolt pistol, Mark of Khorne, Power maul

Exalted Champion [5 PL, 70pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Mark of Khorne

+ Troops +

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 97pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 18x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Chaos Cultists [9 PL, 101pts]: Mark of Khorne
. 19x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Flamer
. Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon: Heavy stubber
. Cultist Champion: Autogun

Khorne Berzerkers [13 PL, 202pts]: 11x Chainsword and bolt pistol, Icon of Wrath
. Berzerker Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainsword

I get a squad of 12 berzerkers, still fragile to shoot but more of them will reach combat. Also, the meet shield of cultist may save them. As for the cultists, I'm thinking that changing the autoguns for mele weapons could be a better deal, since 2 attacks + World Eaters trait pair quite well.

Covenant of Tzeentch?
(+1 to Overwatch if I’m not mistaken...)

Why not make a battalion with mass renegade militia.. equip a plasma gun on every 5

Supercharge plasma on Overwatch (not only negating plasma overcharge on 1s, but also hitting on 5s)

Or Mutant Rabble all with shotguns (again, the Overwatch )

Try the inspiring leader next to a command squad and vix net then invest in some vox casters so that all your heretics get his moral buff 120" away and fanatic from the command squad. or alternativeally have maximum sized cultists squads and enforcers so that they wont run.

O. Hope this helps

I found another R&H player that still plays?

Question, why even bother with berzerkers when you don't pick alpha legion?

Ok. let me see else, why would you run the malefic lord, at 80pts, when for 100 you can get the coven? sturdier, and generally better at casting.
Heavy bolters are a bit of a waste on diciples. If you want anti infantry ( and that is no joke) the stubber delivers nearly equal results for half the price. The Autocannon is the superior allrounder for minescule point cost increase, else mortars, even on disciples.

Malcadors sadly still suck, but since you now don't have firing archs aswell as splitfire without disadvantage i guess you could make them work, somewhat. Still 2 LRBT's are sturdier and have more battlecannon shots since they gained doubleshooting for their advance which malcadors sadly did not get.

Mortar team? Only 3 mortars?
You take the only correctly priced militia unit not in full strength for 6 mortars per squad? My inner Artillery tyrant cries.
(basically the best heavy support anti infantery choice, feel free to max them out.)

No marauders? The best unit we can field? Not even a small snper team for 34 pts?

Little food for thought, you technically could get rid of your world eaters detachment, flip the disciples to command squads with vox nets. Reason you might ask?
The best baseline troop moral outside of custodes.
Take militia squads at sice 20. Give them the chaos sigil and the Vox. (mortars or heavy stubbers team if you feel like it)

Not only will your 3 command squads literally guarantee a army wide morale of 9 statistically, when you throw your lord next to that squad you guarantee army wide morale of 10.
Chaos sigil allows double morale roll and picking the lower of the 2. At 90 pts such a 20 man cultist squad develops to be a serious annoyance for even guardsmen to deal with.

That were my 2 cents.
GL a fellow R&H player

Not Online!!! wrote:
I found another R&H player that still plays?

Question, why even bother with berzerkers when you don't pick alpha legion?

Ok. let me see else, why would you run the malefic lord, at 80pts, when for 100 you can get the coven? sturdier, and generally better at casting.
Heavy bolters are a bit of a waste on diciples. If you want anti infantry ( and that is no joke) the stubber delivers nearly equal results for half the price. The Autocannon is the superior allrounder for minescule point cost increase, else mortars, even on disciples.

Malcadors sadly still suck, but since you now don't have firing archs aswell as splitfire without disadvantage i guess you could make them work, somewhat. Still 2 LRBT's are sturdier and have more battlecannon shots since they gained doubleshooting for their advance which malcadors sadly did not get.

Mortar team? Only 3 mortars?
You take the only correctly priced militia unit not in full strength for 6 mortars per squad? My inner Artillery tyrant cries.
(basically the best heavy support anti infantery choice, feel free to max them out.)

No marauders? The best unit we can field? Not even a small snper team for 34 pts?

Little food for thought, you technically could get rid of your world eaters detachment, flip the disciples to command squads with vox nets. Reason you might ask?
The best baseline troop moral outside of custodes.
Take militia squads at sice 20. Give them the chaos sigil and the Vox. (mortars or heavy stubbers team if you feel like it)

Not only will your 3 command squads literally guarantee a army wide morale of 9 statistically, when you throw your lord next to that squad you guarantee army wide morale of 10.
Chaos sigil allows double morale roll and picking the lower of the 2. At 90 pts such a 20 man cultist squad develops to be a serious annoyance for even guardsmen to deal with.

That were my 2 cents.
GL a fellow R&H player

Well met.

Not many Of us r&h sadists with a glutton for self punishment that will run the worst army in the game for the love of it.

For command or diciples i like lascannons or missiles personally as plenty of anti infantry like mortars flamers and stubbers in othrr units like militia and hwt.
Also orgyns in a Valkyrie is a fun tactic for a powerfuk alpha strike. If you include some characters yiu can. Grav chut and summon units of deamons with the deamon stratagems for an in your face army turn1.

Berzerkers only work in two ways:
Large, 20 man Zerker units from the Alpha Legion that you infiltrate forward.
Or
In transports: rhinos or the Assault Claw drop pod.

I personally run them as 3 5 man squads in Rhinos (rhinos are tough enough to survive small arms fire and weak enough that most players will priorities larger models like knights).

On top of that, the only way to run Berzerkers is by giving every Zerker Chainaxe + Chainsword, give the Champion a Plasma pistol + Power fist and give the squad the Icon of wrath.

Helbrutes are also pretty pants, not worth it when you need the points for Berzerker transports.

As for the rest of the list, I'd suggest Militia over Disciples; Disciples are good but not worth losing out on 4 more command points. I'd also suggest grabbing an Enforcer or two to stop your renegades from running away.

The Knight portion is really up to personal preference, I like the melee Armigers because they won't be locked in combat as easily as the twin cannon version. The Knight I'd personally take as a Melta-Gatling cannon Knight but that's just my taste.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Berzerkers only work in two ways:
Large, 20 man Zerker units from the Alpha Legion that you infiltrate forward.
Or
In transports: rhinos or the Assault Claw drop pod.

I personally run them as 3 5 man squads in Rhinos (rhinos are tough enough to survive small arms fire and weak enough that most players will priorities larger models like knights).

On top of that, the only way to run Berzerkers is by giving every Zerker Chainaxe + Chainsword, give the Champion a Plasma pistol + Power fist and give the squad the Icon of wrath.

Helbrutes are also pretty pants, not worth it when you need the points for Berzerker transports.

As for the rest of the list, I'd suggest Militia over Disciples; Disciples are good but not worth losing out on 4 more command points. I'd also suggest grabbing an Enforcer or two to stop your renegades from running away.

The Knight portion is really up to personal preference, I like the melee Armigers because they won't be locked in combat as easily as the twin cannon version. The Knight I'd personally take as a Melta-Gatling cannon Knight but that's just my taste.

If he goes pure r&h what are you going to spend tge cp on lol

Re-rolls, keeping his Renegades from running, interrupting in the fight phase and using CP for the massive part of his list that isn't R&H because he isn't running pure R&H.

 mrhappyface wrote:
Re-rolls, keeping his Renegades from running, interrupting in the fight phase and using CP for the massive part of his list that isn't R&H because he isn't running pure R&H.

Correct
Even if he get's rid of his World eaters, the knights still require support from CP,
Best thing would be to field another minimalistic battalion Detachment, since R&H HQ's are actually fairly decently priced, except the malefics, thanks to those poeple that literally only fielded a supreme detachment of them with brimstones.......

10 Cp would do really well with his knights.
He then also would have, if he goes ith 20 militia blobs with sigils and voxes, 120 cheap chaff bodies with actual moral on the field, with decent enouth anti armour behind it.

Or he goes full minimlaistic, fields 60 x10 cultist squads, also an option, but neither as durable nor as fluffy.

Or he goes full bananas and begins fielding 3x50 man mutant blobs with 3 enforcers behind in a battalion. Frankly i personally don't recommend this since 150 models for troop taxes of one battalion can be exhausting to modell and paint. But that combination still can lay down the hurt.