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Hello!

I'm interested in one of these (or both if they are different enough) I'm sure somewhere in this forum there might be a thread on this topic but I'd like to hear people's opinion on strengths/weaknesses of the games, differences etc.

Also if I get Necromunda, which of the Gang War supplements are necessary? It seems you only need Gang War 2 if you were to play Orlock, but the other books all seem to contain good stuff?

Also, at least in regards to Necromunda, it seems your gangs evolve over time with changing equipment/weapons etc, how does that work in regards to the models themselves, it seems a bit crazy to magnetize everything...

Regards,
Thomas

So, I sadly cannot give you much insight into Necromunda. I'm not a big fan of gang warfare on an inconsequential planet that can be Exterminatus'd at any moment because it harbors heretic technology, rebelling gangs, genestealer cultists, and a chaos insurgency. That's just my two cents, take it with a grain of salt.

As for the game systems themselves, I know that Necromunda seems to have a much more compelling Campaign aspect, with, as you said, changing out equipment. Of course, GW doesn't want you to magnetize, they want you to keep buying the kits along with the ForgeWorld upgrade packs to create a big collection of Necromunda models. Realistically, magnetizing would be the way to go right off the bat if you want to save a LOT of money.

Now let's talk Kill Team.

Very different than Necromunda. Yes the game systems are both skirmish-based and they use some similar rules in terms of alternating activations and the like, but Kill Team is more '40k lite'. That's not a bad thing. In fact, it's amazing for the game's balance. By taking thematic choices from 40k's massively bloated roster of units and distilling them into 1-5 units for each faction, we have probably one of the most balanced games in 40k history.

There is no equipment swapping in Kill Team. You build your roster with your collection of 40k models. However, many models have multiple options for weapons, so there's certainly impetus for magnetizing or having other options in your roster of units. You build a team and have at it in quick 30-40 minute battles. There's a campaign system, your models can level up, and when you lose you lose resources. When you're out of a resource, you become a 'guerrilla fighter', still participating in the game, but unable to win. However, able to make others in the campaign lose if you're clever.

I find Kill Team much more compelling. It fits the lore of the 40k universe better than the full 40k game and there's a lot of motivation to convert/paint your models to a higher standard and to make each model unique.

I'd be interested to hear about Necromunda and if it's good, I'm loving the idea of making your gang and fighting other scum bags.

In regards to Kill Team, I've been playing it for the past week and have been really enjoying it. It's very much 8th edition 40k but the alternate activation for the shooting and combat phases, and on such a small scale, makes it quite fun. Making the team and giving them names and specialties is awesome too so I'd recommend it if you like that sort of thing.

Thanks for comments so far I have Shadow War: Armageddon but it felt a bit lacking.

I have played N17 several times up to now and I like it very much. Though the beginning was a little rough because the guys writing the rules were obvious noobs who never played the game themselves. After hunting down FAQs on yaktribe and houseruling some stuff for our campaign everything is now sorted out.

What´s so great about N17?
It´s a skrimish game that has nothing to do with 40K because there are (thanks to IoM) no SM running around. So if you already play 40K it will be a welcome change to your daily routine. GW provided all the gangs apart from Delaque and Cawdor with new models and they are all awesome. Weapon packs from FW allow you to personalize each and every ganger so that no model looks alike or is armed in a repetitive way. The campaign system allows you to gain new territory and your gangers will gain XP, new skills and permanent injuries. There are lots of different scenarios to choose from and the Badzone Delta-7 supplement comes along with new environment rules which are great. Apart from hiring gangers, you may hire pets, docs, cooks, etc.
N17 even uses nice orange templates.

Ok, how does it work in Campaigns for both Necromunda and Kill Team? Is there a risk of a team snowballing, say winning first few games and then become unstoppable due to income/resources or skills or equipment?

Totto wrote:
Ok, how does it work in Campaigns for both Necromunda and Kill Team? Is there a risk of a team snowballing, say winning first few games and then become unstoppable due to income/resources or skills or equipment?

I have never played KT18 and never will. Why? Because I already play N17 & Freebooter´s Fate (fantasy pirate skirmish game). These two skirmish games are vastly different to 40K which is good.

Snowballing? Depends on the players involved and the luck they have. It is not always wise to fight until the better end. I once played with my vintage Escher against Goliath in a test game. Both gangs bottled out with the brutes winning in the end. We also checked what kind of injuries all the gangers suffered even if these would not have any effect after all:

Goliath:
Death: Leader, Champion, Ganger
Recovery: Champion, Ganger
Ready for action: Ganger


Escher:
Death: Ganger
Recovery: Champion, 3x Gangers
Ready for action: Leader, 3x Gangers

If this had been a campaign game then the Goliath player would have been totally screwed. A pyrrhic victory indeed.

Totto wrote:
Ok, how does it work in Campaigns for both Necromunda and Kill Team? Is there a risk of a team snowballing, say winning first few games and then become unstoppable due to income/resources or skills or equipment?

Our last Turf War had a couple of players who put everything into buffing their Gang Rating (points total) while doing everything to avoid taking serious losses. Turf War Apotheosis is determined by your Gang Reputation not by your Gang Rating. The couple of really large Gangs in our Turf War were getting taken into Scenario's that have a Giant Killer bonus to your Rep for facing them. When it came to Apotheosis the gangs with the highest Gang Rating were nowhere near the leaders. They snowballed themselves right out of the running.

Apparently hivers have an eye for the brave souls willing to take on the corporate type gangers.

Necro or KT?

I loved the old necro and wanted to love the new one, but the rules are really a mess and you need to buy all the DLC.. sorry, the gang wars books.

Kill team is simpler, more balanced (even if it's really far from perfect) and faster.

So, theorically, I would prefer N17 (real alternated play, less powerfull and more "humans" characters, better personalisation and evolution, etc...), but in fact, I will vote for Kill team.
But I don't say that my old necro escher gang will not make an apparition in KT, probably played as chaos cultists, genestealer cultist or guards...

It's a bit of an old thread but now that both have been out for a while which do you prefer and why?

Owning both I prefer Kill Team because Necromunda still feels orphaned from the 40k universe

Yeah i think I'm leaning towards killteam as my games will probably be mostly one off.

Do you have to use cards?

kill team hands down

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
Yeah i think I'm leaning towards killteam as my games will probably be mostly one off.

Do you have to use cards?

We don't use cards or most of the little tokens, its easy enough to know if something is readied/already moved for us but we are casual

If you want a fast easy, game with no depth or difficult decisions...KILL TEAM!!!

Sadly, Necromunda requires more engagement, more immersion, and game play is not rote.

I'm kidding...Or, am I?

 Gobbla wrote:
If you want a fast easy, game with no depth or difficult decisions...KILL TEAM!!!

Sadly, Necromunda requires more engagement, more immersion, and game play is not rote.

I'm kidding...Or, am I?

It also requires a lot more investment/modeling time. Since equipment can and will change over time and a ton of options are FW only, that means a ton of models or magnet work to fully have a gang evolve over time of a campaign. Kill team needs the rule book and models that you probably already have and and equipment is all in the standard kits. The other thing is that Kill team has a ton more factions. If your not invested in a human gang on a hive world then it's hard to get invested.

The only thing that i dislike so far about killteam is the limitation on the models.
What i mean by that is let's say i want to run deathguard, my entire army is limited to plague marines and pox walkers.
Why can't i throw in a terminator or a cultist?
Either I'm missing something or like i said, its severely limited.

Kill-Team just seems like 8th Ed Lite to me. Same endless auras and numerous differently worded ways of inflicting Moral Wounds. Spare me...

N17 is... Necromunda. It's my fav GW of all time given a fresh coat of paint, an updated rule system (alternate activation is great), and a whole new way to play it (2D as well as the regular 3D). Great re-imagining of the gangs (almost - the Delaque's are nothing like their original concept), and tons of detailed campaign play where each person in your gang is a character with their own ongoing story.

Plus the terrain is ace!

HoundsofDemos wrote:

 Gobbla wrote:
If you want a fast easy, game with no depth or difficult decisions...KILL TEAM!!!

Sadly, Necromunda requires more engagement, more immersion, and game play is not rote.

I'm kidding...Or, am I?

It also requires a lot more investment/modeling time. Since equipment can and will change over time and a ton of options are FW only, that means a ton of models or magnet work to fully have a gang evolve over time of a campaign. Kill team needs the rule book and models that you probably already have and and equipment is all in the standard kits. The other thing is that Kill team has a ton more factions. If your not invested in a human gang on a hive world then it's hard to get invested.

Not entirely accurate. I have two gangs built and painted. Goliaths and Eschers. Both have 10 figures. Which is about a full gang, each. Though, could use an extra sprue for each. I use older figs for Juves. I don't represent unremarkable pistols (or any knives) on the models. Nor, war gear. So, they can upgrade without changes. That's pretty standard. So, I don't need tons of models or magnets. Now, I do have a ridiculous amount of 40K bits. So, I have done a bit of kitbashing (long rifle and Heavy Stubber). Nothing too advanced. Dang, I also have Orlocks, so have three gangs! Why not? Compared to 40K, the gang boxes are a bargain. The models are pretty easy to build (except for the famously fiddly Goliath cigar), and paint.

As far as rules go, I don't have much to add to what is already said here. So I'll add preferences.

To each their own, so I'll voice the opinion that I like the tone and atmosphere of Necromunda. Always did right off the bat when it first appeared in White Dwarf magazine as "Confrontation". Then again, that was in/after the Rogue Trader era where funny little metal men could be bought with plastic arms and depending on paint job could represent killer clowns attacking Planetary Defense Force soldiers and what not. Then 'true' Necrominda appeared, with the plastic bulkheads and cardboard to make 3D terrain easily available, and 'real' gangs, the gangs we now know (and some more). Every now and then a little extra appeared, in expansions and White Dwarf (horrifying (good) memories of a gang discovering a purestrain genestealer on their turf and hunting it down). I got real excited to see a revamp. To my opinion it didn't fail, even if there are a couple of oddities in the rules. But then again, we're talking about GW rules, so what's an oddity or twohundred? Heck, I even like the reinvention of House Delaque better than the original models.

Killteam is a game I play more often, though. But not because I like it more. It is more readily available. Expansions and support aplenty. Easy to use models from existing collections. More Factions than Gangs. People used the term 40k-lite. Don't get me wrong, I like killteam a lot, but to me it is indeed a variant of 40k, a gateway game to get into bigger armies. As such, up to now I have bought Killzones to expand my Killteam experience, not Killteam boxes. As far as Necromunda goes, bought it almost all.

They've just shown the complete Gang War collection in one new book coming out the same time as Delaques.

Yeah, Necro is better, but heavier. I guess that's it
But don't ever say that the Necro models are easy to build: they are nightmare if you don't glue them exactly like they want it to.

I've had no problems building models yet. Have done all the Forge World minis, Goliath + Weapon Upgrades, Orlock, Chaos Cult and Genestealer Cult. Yet to do Van Saar, Escher and Cawdor.

Pre game
Limited custom ability
Obvious units missed out
Factions missing

During the game
Very very small board
Scenarios have major issues with height / delpoyment on tall structures
wierd wounding rules

Necromunda has its quirks but found it a more enjoyable game.

 godardc wrote:
Yeah, Necro is better, but heavier. I guess that's it
But don't ever say that the Necro models are easy to build: they are nightmare if you don't glue them exactly like they want it to.

Having built three gangs so far (Goliath, Escher, and Orlock) this is an issue, but not a nightmare. I built the box set Goliath's and Eschers as they were shown in the instructions. But, later figured out they are more modular and interchangeable as far as arms holding weapons goes. So, built the Orlocks to taste. But, yes, they can be darn fiddly, especially the Escher. Because, to make 5 torsos turn into 10 different gangers, they have a bunch of interchangeable parts, like hair and faces. Instead of just 10 different heads. I will concede they are not the easiest of GW figs to build. And, because arms and weapons are one piece, repeating the same weapons can have fighters with similar poses. To get more variety can take a bit of clippers and glue conversions. But, "Nightmare" is a bit of an overstatement. I only say that because I don't want folks scared off by something that really isn't that big of an issue. Besides, the gang boxes are a relative bargain.

It was a nightmare glueing together the separate wings on the old metal Swooping Hawk models:




Took ages for the glue to set for some reason, and if the glue got mixed with the fingers, they would fall off when releasing the grip...

Heard from others that Warmachine's Nyss Hunters were difficult to assemble:



And they used to be strong so quite popular to use for competetive players.

All of these examples are metal so good luck trying to do conversions and get unique poses or combinations!

I had to cut almost every hand, every weapon, just because I couldn't glue the two arms I wanted. I had to cut shoulders and necks. Basically, each model has one way to be glued. Damned, they even molded the hands to the weapons, in 2018 !
And the Van Saar have weapons separated in 3 parts, a specific femal torso going with a specific female back going with specific femal legs... So there is ONE possible Van Saar female model allowed in the world if you go just with the sprue.
No customization from the bare sprues (what a joke when they said they would be customizable to the hair...that's the only customizable part) and difficult to convert by yourself. A simple Space Marine Tactical boxe is a wonder compared to this.
Necromunda boxes are the worst I have ever bought, but the models, at least, are beautiful, high quality and have a lot of character. Kill Team doesn't have this problem but I don't think it is very important when you choose a game

Necromunda, Now, os a great game, creared for those who love deep and rewarding true skirmish game. Kill team is simpler. I do not like it as Necromunda.

 godardc wrote:
But don't ever say that the Necro models are easy to build: they are nightmare if you don't glue them exactly like they want it to.

While I don't think I would call it a nightmare, I see your point here, and as such agree with most of it.

 godardc wrote:
I had to cut almost every hand, every weapon, just because I couldn't glue the two arms I wanted. I had to cut shoulders and necks. Basically, each model has one way to be glued. Damned, they even molded the hands to the weapons, in 2018 !
And the Van Saar have weapons separated in 3 parts, a specific femal torso going with a specific female back going with specific femal legs... So there is ONE possible Van Saar female model allowed in the world if you go just with the sprue.
No customization from the bare sprues (what a joke when they said they would be customizable to the hair...that's the only customizable part) and difficult to convert by yourself. A simple Space Marine Tactical boxe is a wonder compared to this.
Necromunda boxes are the worst I have ever bought, but the models, at least, are beautiful, high quality and have a lot of character. Kill Team doesn't have this problem but I don't think it is very important when you choose a game

I have to disagree slightly here. Killteam does have this problem in a minor way. A lot of the new and old clampack character models, both in plastic and in finecast, are mono-pose as well, limiting your Commanders options somewhat. Killteam's strength comes from the fact that it uses a lot of existing troop choices and some elites for which a highly customizable kit already existed. But, for example, the four new Death Guard entries in Killteam Commanders, based on four mono-pose character models in the greater 40K Death Guard range, have zero (0!) customizability. To specify even further, the Plague Surgeon has no wargear options what so ever. It is listed as having a bolt pistol, and cannot exchange that for a plasma pistol, for example. The model itself has a holster with 'a' pistol in it. That could have been a Black Hole Pistol for all I care. Heck, good luck turning his face to the right shoulder for a slight dramatic difference in his stance.
Primaris Chaplains and Librarians? The Drukhari Succubus? Genestealer Cult commanders? All examples of mono-pose, non-customizable models that have, as such, a mono-pose, non-customizable entry in the Commanders book.

But then again, how many different poses, easily converted so, can you think of for your Killteam Space Marine Tactical Gunner with Heavy Bolter?

Other than the Goliath leader's cigar, both they and the Escher were easy enough to build. Complicated, and with a lot of components, but nothing difficult.