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Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






Anyone got any lore on how much the Emperor influences Imperial saints, I always thought the Emperor chooses the right people, who have an ideal, belief or agenda that the Emperor can use or he sees their actions in future and capitalises them. He then imbues them with power to do the job. Keelar for instance was a saint, obviously imbued by powers or the Emperor as she was never a psyker but was still able to use psychic powers (could be an agent of chaos but unlikely I think). My main question is if the Emperor controls them completely then it raises serious implications for the Emperor and the Imperial cult as Keele was a major supporter of it. Some saints like in red path are arrogant, megalomaniac donkey-caves so I don't think he completely controls them.
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





it's NEVER been said and likely never will be as an entire truth would pretty much prove or disprove an entire faction of the Inqusition (the Thorrians). about all we know though is that Celestine does indeed "think for herself"

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






BrianDavion wrote:
it's NEVER been said and likely never will be as an entire truth would pretty much prove or disprove an entire faction of the Inqusition (the Thorrians). about all we know though is that Celestine does indeed "think for herself"


Do you have a quote for Celestine thinking for herself?
   
Made in ca
Chaplain with Hate to Spare





 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
it's NEVER been said and likely never will be as an entire truth would pretty much prove or disprove an entire faction of the Inqusition (the Thorrians). about all we know though is that Celestine does indeed "think for herself"


Do you have a quote for Celestine thinking for herself?


in one of the gathering storm books I seem to recall getting some insight into how she thought etc. don't have the book immediatly handy though

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend 
   
Made in au
Tinkering Tech-Priest





I can't exactly remember the quote and I don't have access to it right now but at the start of fall of cadia it was saint celestine by herself being drawn to cadia with nothing saying it was the Emperor's descision. Though to be fair if saint celestine was just a normal SoB she probably would've gone to the battle anyway. I'll try to get up the quote as soon as I can.

As an admech player your transports offend me. 
   
Made in gb
Khorne Chosen Marine Riding a Juggernaut






 kastelen wrote:
I can't exactly remember the quote and I don't have access to it right now but at the start of fall of cadia it was saint celestine by herself being drawn to cadia with nothing saying it was the Emperor's descision. Though to be fair if saint celestine was just a normal SoB she probably would've gone to the battle anyway. I'll try to get up the quote as soon as I can.


cool.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Orem, Utah

As others have said, the ambiguity here is definitely intentional.


So let's speculate:

- It is clear that Belief changes physical reality in the 40k universe. Sisters of Battle get fun Faith powers based on their beliefs, or the rules for purity seals grant clear belief based powers.

But in the greater sense, it looks like belief based abilities aren't actually restricted to 'true' things.

This can be most easily seen in the gullible Orks. Orks can paint their cars red, and they actually go faster. They can strap a rocket on a giant rock and it actually works like a starship- they don't die in the vacuum of space because they don't realize that they should.

To me, this makes it quite clear that the belief doesn't have to be founded in reality in order to have power.


- We could explain all of this as psychic energy created by faith in something or other. That's very in line with the setting's physics- where (almost) all sentient creatures have some psychic presence, and activities and emotions on a large scale manifest physically (like with the birth of Slaanesh).


- The question then becomes- what makes a Saint a Saint? They might be the personal avatar of the Emperor, but that's not the only way in which they can have power.

So long as enough faithful believe that the Emperor might manifest his power in this way, that the warp will bend reality and make it so.

And maybe both happen- maybe the Emperor chooses an avatar sometimes, and sometimes the sheer power of faith combine with the warp and causes a saint to manifest.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





UK

 Delvarus Centurion wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
it's NEVER been said and likely never will be as an entire truth would pretty much prove or disprove an entire faction of the Inqusition (the Thorrians). about all we know though is that Celestine does indeed "think for herself"

Do you have a quote for Celestine thinking for herself?

In the WD that accompanied Gathering Storm 3, there was a short piece of fluff describing Gulliman's resurrection from Celestine's point of view. It is fairly short and her thoughts are all on the pious and noble side but she definitely thinks for herself, she is not a puppet. At one point she cries and gives thanks to the Emperor for a miracle that they do not deserve.

I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star. 
   
Made in us
Jealous that Horus is Warmaster






The Giant Ghosts books details a bit the events that surround the creation of a saint. Lots of minor miracles, and a sense that it’s fated/preordained in a way

13th Stor-Bezashk and Ezurum Fusiliers - Army of Dark Compliance Plog -

“Victory is not an abstract concept, it is the equation that sits at the heart of strategy. Victory is the will to expend lives and munitions in attack, overmatching the defenders’reserves of manpower and ordnance. As long as my Iron Warriors are willing to pay any price in pursuit of victory, we shall never be defeated.” - The Primarch Perturabo, Master of the Iron Warriors 
   
 
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