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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/17 20:32:15
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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My Nurgle DP is taking the relic Corruption, which has damage of d3. If he is blessed with Virulence (does double damage on a wound of 7+), I believe it would be d3x2, rather than 2d3.
I think I read this in a FAQ, can someone point me to the right place? Or correct me if I’m wrong?
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/17 20:42:12
Subject: Re:2d3 or d3x2
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Nihilistic Necron Lord
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No FAQ needed. The wording of virulent blessing is clear.
Furthermore, wound rolls of 7+ made for that unit in the Fight phase inflict double damage.
Whatever you roll on your D3 gets doubled.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/17 20:43:26
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Pretty sure it's d3 x2. If rolling a 7+ to wound means you damage is doubled and you had a d3 damage weapon, you roll a d3 as normal, but then double it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/17 21:33:51
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Elric Greywolf wrote:My Nurgle DP is taking the relic Corruption, which has damage of d3. If he is blessed with Virulence (does double damage on a wound of 7+), I believe it would be d3x2, rather than 2d3.
I think I read this in a FAQ, can someone point me to the right place? Or correct me if I’m wrong?
Battle Primer page 13 wrote:Damage (D): The amount of damage inflicted by a successful hit.
So we really don't have much to go on. But D3 damage double would probably be 2D3 since the initial damage is D3.
Talk it over with your opponent for sure though before the game.
Traditionally, in games like RPG's, double damage rolls all applicable dice twice, not that it really has any bearing on this rule set, but maybe use as a guideline?
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/18 00:24:44
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Horrific Hive Tyrant
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The rule doesn't tell you to double the damage characteristic, instead to double the inflicted damage. To do that you have to calculate the normal damage inflicted by rolling the d3. Then you double the result.
Admittedly it isn't totally clear from the wording, but this is how it is conventionally played.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 14:16:24
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought
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Yeah, D3×2 is the only way to work it. Imagine the opposite case where it said to halve damage on some condition; what does half a D3 look like? How do you roll a D1.5?
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"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 14:39:47
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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It’s 1D3x2. Your damage is D3, so roll that, then double it. 2D3 does not equal D3x2.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 22:33:43
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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JohnnyHell wrote:It’s 1D3x2. Your damage is D3, so roll that, then double it. 2D3 does not equal D3x2.
Except Virulent Blessing does not mention x2
It states "double damage."
If you double the damage of a D3, you simply add another D3 for 2d3 damage.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 23:07:48
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Emboldened Warlock
Widnes UK
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DeathReaper wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:It’s 1D3x2. Your damage is D3, so roll that, then double it. 2D3 does not equal D3x2.
Except Virulent Blessing does not mention x2
It states "double damage."
If you double the damage of a D3, you simply add another D3 for 2d3 damage.
The d3 isn't the damage of the weapon. The d3 is the dice you roll to determine the damage of the weapon. Therefore it is D3x2
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Ulthwe: 7500 points |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 23:17:23
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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roflmajog wrote: DeathReaper wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:It’s 1D3x2. Your damage is D3, so roll that, then double it. 2D3 does not equal D3x2.
Except Virulent Blessing does not mention x2
It states "double damage."
If you double the damage of a D3, you simply add another D3 for 2d3 damage.
The d3 isn't the damage of the weapon. The d3 is the dice you roll to determine the damage of the weapon. Therefore it is D3x2
This.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/19 23:59:27
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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Yeah, lowest paragraph of 'Modifying Characteristics' on page 175 of the rulebook explains resolving random value characteristics, and that for random Damage characteristics you roll for that characteristic each time.
Accordingly,the Damage characteristic is determined each time with the dice roll, the result of which you then double.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/19 23:59:37
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 00:53:28
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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roflmajog wrote: DeathReaper wrote: JohnnyHell wrote:It’s 1D3x2. Your damage is D3, so roll that, then double it. 2D3 does not equal D3x2.
Except Virulent Blessing does not mention x2
It states "double damage."
If you double the damage of a D3, you simply add another D3 for 2d3 damage.
The d3 isn't the damage of the weapon. The d3 is the dice you roll to determine the damage of the weapon. Therefore it is D3x2
Incorrect. the damage of the weapon is D3...
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 02:52:28
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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You need to read the sidebar I referred to in my previous reply.
You're required to determine the damage characteristic by rolling a D3 in this scenario. You would then double the resulting damage characteristic.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 06:24:56
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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Mr. Shine wrote:
You need to read the sidebar I referred to in my previous reply.
You're required to determine the damage characteristic by rolling a D3 in this scenario. You would then double the resulting damage characteristic.
Mr Shine has the right of it.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 12:36:19
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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It is ambiguous at best.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/20 12:41:28
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 13:51:23
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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It’s not at all, the correct logic has been posted.
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Stormonu wrote:For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 14:08:40
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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JohnnyHell wrote: Mr. Shine wrote:
You need to read the sidebar I referred to in my previous reply.
You're required to determine the damage characteristic by rolling a D3 in this scenario. You would then double the resulting damage characteristic.
Mr Shine has the right of it.
Agreed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/20 21:03:43
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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Incorrect. It's crystal clear...
Per the last paragraph of the 'Modifying Characteristics' sidebar I referred to, 'D3' for a characteristic denotes that characteristic as being a random value. Also per that reference, the value must be determined by rolling on a per-model basis each time it inflicts damage.
Accordingly, per the abundantly clear instructions in that reference, each time you wish to inflict damage using Corruption, you must roll a D3 to determine its damage characteristic value. Which, when combined with Virulent Blessing and a to wound roll of 7+, is doubled.
Given we know that the D3 roll is for determining the damage characteristic value, we can categorically say that rolling a second D3 is not correct. That would be determining the damage characterstic value twice and adding them together.
Nope, it's quite plainly (D3)*2.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/20 21:12:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/21 04:01:35
Subject: Re:2d3 or d3x2
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Regular Dakkanaut
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D3x2
You dont know what the damage is until you roll the d3, then you double the result
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/21 13:42:46
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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It might be "crystal clear" with some thought put into it, but it isn't immediately apparent which is correct.
I asked the question originally because I sensed some ambiguity. When it came up in my games this past weekend (ITC tournament), I always proposed the d3x2, and two of my six opponents said it should actually be 2d3.
So there's definitely room for discussion and doubt, since obviously this RAW community, as well as a general tourney community can't find immediate consensus.
I wish it WERE 2d3, because while that gives me less chance of 6 damage, it also gives me less chance of 2 damage!
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/21 14:38:10
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I believe that you find consensus here as there was only one person (besides you asking the question) who did not see it as d3 X 2, and the flaws in his reasoning were pointed out by the others here. Concensus does not mean unanimity in agreement.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/08/21 20:30:21
Subject: 2d3 or d3x2
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
Ankh Morpork
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My "crystal clear" comment wasn't aimed at you, Elric Greywold, so I trust no harm done there.
I'd say it's the sort of query that appears ambiguous on the face of it, but when the rules for random value characteristics are actually read (after you find them... let's be honest, that was probably a seriously contributing factor here) it's fairly straightforward.
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