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Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment.

Super-heavy:

Imperial Knight Castigator

[CP:3]


My favorite 500 point army list is a single knight castigator. 3 command points, and a knight at 500 points seems really overpowered. I have the sword and stomps, and the bolt cannon for mowing down infantry. Is there any way to effectively beat this? Just seems broken; I could probably win against any list with this, except maybe the largest swarm Tyranids and Guard. Then,

Super-heavy Auxiliary Detachment:

Super-heavy:

Imperial Knight Crusader
Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon, Meltagun.

[CP:3]

I field this. Are Knights really unbeatable in smaller points games?

Blood Angels Supreme Command +1 CP: 403 pts

Captain: hammer, shield, relic wings
Captain: hammer, shield
Mephiston:

Those three could probably make it happen on T1 or 2.

Option 2:
You could probably Also do it using a BA Battalion with 2x captains 3x scouts: 423 pts. That’s 8cp to burn on 3d6 charge (-2), +d3 attacks (-1), fight twice (-3)

Yeah, honestly if anyone wants to really beat this list they could pick anything from the blood angel battalion Nukz mentioned, too 3 biker captains which stop it from falling back, or 12 zoanthropes and 1 magus could probably do it through pure smite spam, or maybe even another knight, 10 reapers + Yvraine and 10 storm guardians would eat this for breakfast

6x stygies dragoons
Enginseer omniscient mask

So t1 charge 18 s8 AP1 D2 attacks that with the stratagem hit on 2's treble hit on 4+ and rereoll misses. Survive that.

501 pts. Genestealer cult magus and primus, 20 model acolyte unit with cult icon and 8 heavy rock saws. Primus adds 1 to hit rolls in the fight phase. Cult icon re-rolls hit rolls of 1 in the fight phase. Magus casts might from beyond on acolytes giving them S+1 and A+1. Thats 24 melee attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, with S10 AP-4 D2. Survive that.

2x xiphon fighters 480pts. Hard to hit so -1 to your shooting and you cant use your melee attacks, 8 lascannons and 6 rotary missiles each turn (S6/AP-2/3Dam) hitting on 3's

Probably wont kill in one turn but should cripple it for a turn 2 or turn 3 kill

 OCaermada wrote:
2x xiphon fighters 480pts. Hard to hit so -1 to your shooting and you cant use your melee attacks, 8 lascannons and 6 rotary missiles each turn (S6/AP-2/3Dam) hitting on 3's

Probably wont kill in one turn but should cripple it for a turn 2 or turn 3 kill

Nah. House Mortan with a Crusader. No penalties to shooting. Also I used to play with Xiphons. Never worked out for me, as -1 to hit cause heavy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:
501 pts. Genestealer cult magus and primus, 20 model acolyte unit with cult icon and 8 heavy rock saws. Primus adds 1 to hit rolls in the fight phase. Cult icon re-rolls hit rolls of 1 in the fight phase. Magus casts might from beyond on acolytes giving them S+1 and A+1. Thats 24 melee attacks hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, with S10 AP-4 D2. Survive that.

I do move faster than you, so I'd take the crusader list and just keep walking away and shooting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nukz4you wrote:
Blood Angels Supreme Command +1 CP: 403 pts

Captain: hammer, shield, relic wings
Captain: hammer, shield
Mephiston:

Those three could probably make it happen on T1 or 2.

Option 2:
You could probably Also do it using a BA Battalion with 2x captains 3x scouts: 423 pts. That’s 8cp to burn on 3d6 charge (-2), +d3 attacks (-1), fight twice (-3)

That's pretty nasty, but I do move faster than you, and then let's analyse this. I'll take the crusader against this list. 12" move versus 6". Mephiston, sure, but I think I can stomp Mephiston. So we start 9" away, then I move 12", so 21". You move 6" so 15" charge. I think even if you make it in, you still get stomped to death with scouts. You wound on 6's. That is pretty damn hard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Straight_Memer wrote:
Yeah, honestly if anyone wants to really beat this list they could pick anything from the blood angel battalion Nukz mentioned, too 3 biker captains which stop it from falling back, or 12 zoanthropes and 1 magus could probably do it through pure smite spam, or maybe even another knight, 10 reapers + Yvraine and 10 storm guardians would eat this for breakfast

Not familiar with Eldar, no player actually plays that at my flgs. The smite spam will do it though. However, do Tyranids suffer from Smite spam penalty? I can kill a few a turn, so I won't be able to wipe ur zoanthropes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Straight_Memer wrote:
Yeah, honestly if anyone wants to really beat this list they could pick anything from the blood angel battalion Nukz mentioned, too 3 biker captains which stop it from falling back, or 12 zoanthropes and 1 magus could probably do it through pure smite spam, or maybe even another knight, 10 reapers + Yvraine and 10 storm guardians would eat this for breakfast

10 reapers are hitting on 3's, wounding on 4's. So roughly you'd do 3 wounds, with a save on 1, so 6 wounds on a knight a turn. You could do maybe 2 wounds with the guardians. And I'm gonna be charging. That's a lot of attacks I'm dishing out that will tear your dark reapers apart.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here's another list I've come up with for 500 points.

Company Commander - Plasma Pistol, Power Axe
Infantry Squad - Heavy weapons with Autocannon, sergeant with boltgun
Infantry Squad - Heavy weapons with Autocannon, sergeant with boltgun

Knight Gallant

This would be nasty. Camp the guardsmen or send them to claim the relic, then you'd be fairly scared by the knight, and you'd send a lot of resources like such.

lliu wrote:

I do move faster than you, so I'd take the crusader list and just keep walking away and shooting.

You dont outrun infantry. You have to move around terrain, where infantry moves right through it. Also genestealer cult can infiltrate, they just show up next to your knight and charge.

lliu wrote:

That's pretty nasty, but I do move faster than you, and then let's analyse this. I'll take the crusader against this list. 12" move versus 6". Mephiston, sure, but I think I can stomp Mephiston. So we start 9" away, then I move 12", so 21". You move 6" so 15" charge. I think even if you make it in, you still get stomped to death with scouts. You wound on 6's. That is pretty damn hard.

Two captains with JP and TH deepstrike and charge. One fully buffed captain slamguinius for 130 pts. can do 72 points of damage in one turn, wounding your knight on 2s.

 p5freak wrote:

lliu wrote:

I do move faster than you, so I'd take the crusader list and just keep walking away and shooting.

You dont outrun infantry. You have to move around terrain, where infantry moves right through it. Also genestealer cult can infiltrate, they just show up next to your knight and charge.

lliu wrote:

That's pretty nasty, but I do move faster than you, and then let's analyse this. I'll take the crusader against this list. 12" move versus 6". Mephiston, sure, but I think I can stomp Mephiston. So we start 9" away, then I move 12", so 21". You move 6" so 15" charge. I think even if you make it in, you still get stomped to death with scouts. You wound on 6's. That is pretty damn hard.

Two captains with JP and TH deepstrike and charge. One fully buffed captain slamguinius for 130 pts. can do 72 points of damage in one turn, wounding your knight on 2s.

Sure, but, DS only works turn 2. If I table you turn one, what happens? I mean, I'd be presumably smart enough to position my knight down various points of retreat. I doubt terrain is enough of a factor. I'm probably getting first turn, but even if, I can field a knight Lancer, which has a 4+invuln in CC.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

lliu wrote:

I do move faster than you, so I'd take the crusader list and just keep walking away and shooting.

You dont outrun infantry. You have to move around terrain, where infantry moves right through it. Also genestealer cult can infiltrate, they just show up next to your knight and charge.

lliu wrote:

That's pretty nasty, but I do move faster than you, and then let's analyse this. I'll take the crusader against this list. 12" move versus 6". Mephiston, sure, but I think I can stomp Mephiston. So we start 9" away, then I move 12", so 21". You move 6" so 15" charge. I think even if you make it in, you still get stomped to death with scouts. You wound on 6's. That is pretty damn hard.

Two captains with JP and TH deepstrike and charge. One fully buffed captain slamguinius for 130 pts. can do 72 points of damage in one turn, wounding your knight on 2s.

In a tourney, yu're also probably not allowed to change lists. If say a 500 point tourney I enter with the Crusader, I doubt people are entering with 2 smash captains and mephiston, although yes this list will proabbly beat my list.

lliu wrote:

Sure, but, DS only works turn 2. If I table you turn one, what happens? I mean, I'd be presumably smart enough to position my knight down various points of retreat. I doubt terrain is enough of a factor. I'm probably getting first turn, but even if, I can field a knight Lancer, which has a 4+invuln in CC.

Only if we play with the beta rule tactical reserves. Its easy to hide a few infantry models so you cant see them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lliu wrote:

In a tourney, yu're also probably not allowed to change lists. If say a 500 point tourney I enter with the Crusader, I doubt people are entering with 2 smash captains and mephiston, although yes this list will proabbly beat my list.

Good luck holding multiple objectives with your single knight.

 p5freak wrote:

lliu wrote:

Sure, but, DS only works turn 2. If I table you turn one, what happens? I mean, I'd be presumably smart enough to position my knight down various points of retreat. I doubt terrain is enough of a factor. I'm probably getting first turn, but even if, I can field a knight Lancer, which has a 4+invuln in CC.

Only if we play with the beta rule tactical reserves. Its easy to hide a few infantry models so you cant see them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

lliu wrote:

In a tourney, yu're also probably not allowed to change lists. If say a 500 point tourney I enter with the Crusader, I doubt people are entering with 2 smash captains and mephiston, although yes this list will proabbly beat my list.

Good luck holding multiple objectives with your single knight.

I've done it actually many times. I basically table the other dude. That's literally what the knight is designed to do. Lol I've lost to a slamguinius but that's expected I think.

On your point about beta tactical reserves, what do you mean? I think you'd have to follow that right?

lliu wrote:

On your point about beta tactical reserves, what do you mean? I think you'd have to follow that right?

Its a beta rule, which means its not official. A TO can use that rule in his tournament, or you agree with your opponent to use it. Otherwise, no, you dont follow it.

 p5freak wrote:

lliu wrote:

On your point about beta tactical reserves, what do you mean? I think you'd have to follow that right?

Its a beta rule, which means its not official. A TO can use that rule in his tournament, or you agree with your opponent to use it. Otherwise, no, you dont follow it.

Ah. I see. I thought it was official FAQ.

U02dah4 wrote:
6x stygies dragoons
Enginseer omniscient mask

So t1 charge 18 s8 AP1 D2 attacks that with the stratagem hit on 2's treble hit on 4+ and rereoll misses. Survive that.

and how do you think to charge turn 1 a model which fire at 36"? dragons move 10" and unless i miss something there is no way you can charge turn 1, with house raven they can move 12" and advance d6 to stay away from you and still fire, in the meanwhile you lost models, 14 shots str 6 ap-2 2 damage. Unsure that's a solution, you wound at 4+ and he save at 3+ and dont forget he can have inv save in CaC too

Stygies have a similar infiltration stratagem as ravenguard/alpha legion, but not limited to only infantry. If you stack up conqueror doctrina, invocation of machine might and the mask relic they would put about 25 damage on a knight in one average round (38-ish str 9 hits).

Assuming the knight is a warlord and solo, ravenguard can probably do a better jump captain than blood angels at this point scale - champion of humanity and hammer/shield eternal plus a backup librarian with might of heroes, less CP on getting into combat so can definately save points for honour the chapter & only in death, could probably afford to bring a jump hammer lieutenant as well in a battalion so the captain hits and wounds on rerollable 2+ up to 15 times.

 blackmage wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
6x stygies dragoons
Enginseer omniscient mask

So t1 charge 18 s8 AP1 D2 attacks that with the stratagem hit on 2's treble hit on 4+ and rereoll misses. Survive that.

and how do you think to charge turn 1 a model which fire at 36"? dragons move 10" and unless i miss something there is no way you can charge turn 1, with house raven they can move 12" and advance d6 to stay away from you and still fire, in the meanwhile you lost models, 14 shots str 6 ap-2 2 damage. Unsure that's a solution, you wound at 4+ and he save at 3+ and dont forget he can have inv save in CaC too

Stygies strategem you deploy 9" away prior to turn 1 after all other models have deployed
Then t1 you move to 2" and declare charge.

So if stygies goes first guarenteed.

If stygies go 2nd well im assuming you line the dragoons up in a wall. With 105mm bases end to end and space between thats getting on for 30" wideline/semi circle.

Depending on where that knight is it can be pretty easy to box in or jam it up against a board edge or terrain

sure you'll get one shot off at -2 to hit if your far enough away dragoons give you 1 and stygies another so hitting 5's W 4's you shoot 2/3 of a dragoon.

At AP1 he doesn't need the inv hes saving at 4+. However 38.hits its taking about 20w+ and once hes engaged hes boxed in so he can't fall back and shoot.

U02dah4 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
6x stygies dragoons
Enginseer omniscient mask

So t1 charge 18 s8 AP1 D2 attacks that with the stratagem hit on 2's treble hit on 4+ and rereoll misses. Survive that.

and how do you think to charge turn 1 a model which fire at 36"? dragons move 10" and unless i miss something there is no way you can charge turn 1, with house raven they can move 12" and advance d6 to stay away from you and still fire, in the meanwhile you lost models, 14 shots str 6 ap-2 2 damage. Unsure that's a solution, you wound at 4+ and he save at 3+ and dont forget he can have inv save in CaC too

Stygies strategem you deploy 9" away prior to turn 1 after all other models have deployed
Then t1 you move to 2" and declare charge.

So if stygies goes first guarenteed.

If stygies go 2nd well im assuming you line the dragoons up in a wall. With 105mm bases end to end and space between thats getting on for 30" wideline/semi circle.

Depending on where that knight is it can be pretty easy to box in or jam it up against a board edge or terrain

sure you'll get one shot off at -2 to hit if your far enough away dragoons give you 1 and stygies another so hitting 5's W 4's you shoot 2/3 of a dragoon.

At AP1 he doesn't need the inv hes saving at 4+. However 38.hits its taking about 20w+ and once hes engaged hes boxed in so he can't fall back and shoot.

If I'm against admech, I take house mortan. Permanent hit on 3's for as long as I have cp I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

U02dah4 wrote:

 blackmage wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
6x stygies dragoons
Enginseer omniscient mask

So t1 charge 18 s8 AP1 D2 attacks that with the stratagem hit on 2's treble hit on 4+ and rereoll misses. Survive that.

and how do you think to charge turn 1 a model which fire at 36"? dragons move 10" and unless i miss something there is no way you can charge turn 1, with house raven they can move 12" and advance d6 to stay away from you and still fire, in the meanwhile you lost models, 14 shots str 6 ap-2 2 damage. Unsure that's a solution, you wound at 4+ and he save at 3+ and dont forget he can have inv save in CaC too

Stygies strategem you deploy 9" away prior to turn 1 after all other models have deployed
Then t1 you move to 2" and declare charge.

So if stygies goes first guarenteed.

If stygies go 2nd well im assuming you line the dragoons up in a wall. With 105mm bases end to end and space between thats getting on for 30" wideline/semi circle.

Depending on where that knight is it can be pretty easy to box in or jam it up against a board edge or terrain

sure you'll get one shot off at -2 to hit if your far enough away dragoons give you 1 and stygies another so hitting 5's W 4's you shoot 2/3 of a dragoon.

At AP1 he doesn't need the inv hes saving at 4+. However 38.hits its taking about 20w+ and once hes engaged hes boxed in so he can't fall back and shoot.

I mean I normally play 500 tourneys Ive won with 2 tiles, and I've been charged before, but my knight stomps to death anything in the way.

500 point tournaments are paper rock scissors plus you don't seem to think anyone can actually kill your knight...
The admech would brutalise your knight in combat as would a slamguinius with super hammer.
Darkreapers and seer will doom you and take big chunks off you in their first round of shooting, maybe even fire and fade behind cover.


You can't table someone turn 1 by the way merely by killing whats on the board.

eldritchstormer wrote:
500 point tournaments are paper rock scissors plus you don't seem to think anyone can actually kill your knight...
The admech would brutalise your knight in combat as would a slamguinius with super hammer.
Darkreapers and seer will doom you and take big chunks off you in their first round of shooting, maybe even fire and fade behind cover.


You can't table someone turn 1 by the way merely by killing whats on the board.

I’m pretty sure this is a rules issue, but if you kill everything on the board, then deep strikers are dead automatically. Isn’t that true?

You are not tabled when you dont have any models on the table turn 1, If you still have deepstrikers. Tabling can only happen in turn 2+.

If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one
player has no models on the battlefield, the game ends
immediately and their opponent automatically wins a
crushing victory.

 p5freak wrote:
You are not tabled when you dont have any models on the table turn 1, If you still have deepstrikers. Tabling can only happen in turn 2+.

If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one
player has no models on the battlefield, the game ends
immediately and their opponent automatically wins a
crushing victory.

I believe in the deep striking rules there's something about no models on the board = deep strikers count as slain.

Thats interrsting but only relevant in tiny games

AM catachan shadowsword could probably take it, and also probably lose against all other lists too lol. Other variants may have a decent chance as well.