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It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Because for some bizarre reason that is what the tournaments have decided as the new standard, despite everything going down in points.

Also, the fact the game is a LOT more lethal with a LOT more models being killed each turn means most games don't last past Turn 3 as it is, thus inflating model counts to get a proper game in.

Though you'd figure with half the points on the table, there'd be half the firepower removing points from the opposite force. Which is reasonable mathematically, but probably doesn't quite work that way because some units scale to be more effective in small games. With different limitations by way of detatchments or unit restrictions you could probably find something that would work.

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

I mean, I always used to play at 2500 for casual games, and of course tournaments and league was 1850. 2000 is big enough to be fun, but small enough to handle. 1500 might be better, since tourneys tend to be short on time, but I wouldn't go down to 1000.

1000pt games just aren't worth it. It takes less time to wipe out both armies than it does to set up the table.

I should have mention the two theories I have. That's it's conspircicy to make people buy alot of models. Or are people doing big games because there are super heavies no FOC. That in little games superheaves break the game, but 2000+ means everybody can fir one or two and lits become balanced. What are rules on allies/detatchments or titian/superheavies?

Well certainly start of 8th GW upped price of models(points). Then it became 2k so people could get about what they had in 7th. Then GW dropped point costs they had just upped. Point level for tournaments...Stayed same.

And then people complain GW games are more expensive when players are making it more expensive themselves as well.

Previously the tournament circuit dictated a seemingly arbitrary points level of 1850. They did this because back when the humble force org chart/CAD (combined arms detachment) existed and you couldn't dual CAD so 1850 was considered the sweet spot for the main armies(Space Marines) to operate a single CAD. Then when CAD became dual CAD and then formations etc everyone still stuck to 1850. GW hinted in 6th/7th that 1500 was what they tested at (funny joke)

When 8th launched they released silly little soundbite propaganda style notices that you could now finish 2k games in 2 hours (nonsense) and it stuck. The ITC having a newfound relationship with GW have lead with 2k being the new points total and that creates the momentum that most carry through.

Personally me and my dudes play 1500. I think given the nature of the game and meta somewhere in between 1500 and 2k is probably the optimum for most armies to develop decent synergies and combos.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Because for some bizarre reason that is what the tournaments have decided as the new standard, despite everything going down in points.

Also, the fact the game is a LOT more lethal with a LOT more models being killed each turn means most games don't last past Turn 3 as it is, thus inflating model counts to get a proper game in.

Agreed. A friend of mine started playing 40k with the launch of 8th edition, and to help bring him along I started a new army and we played our first games at 1000 points. None of those games made it to turn 5, most didn't get to turn 4. Since we've upgraded to playing 2000 point games, we routinely finish turn 5 and roll for turns 6 and 7.

2000 points has been the sweet spot for me since I started playing at the beginning of 5th edition.

2k lets you bring toys. You know, those amazing models you bought that cost a lot of points and money, and are very fun to field? Those guys.

You have to bring troops for board control, hqs for buffing and countering, perhaps some psykers or antipsykers, support units, anti tank, fast objective grabbers, area denial, etc. After all that you generally don't have any points left at 1500pts. That extra 250-500pts normally goes on big cool stuff, and who doesn't want to play with big cool stuff?

Because what is tournament standard is also what the rest of us have to use as well otherwise people feel like its' not "real 40k".

I don't think you have much hope of building a balanced list under about 1750, and 2k really feels perfect to me when I'm putting my lists together.

2k has also been the standard since at least 5th edition, and I definitely still have fewer models than I did in 5th to 7th at 2k, but I play mostly marine armies, which did have significant price increases to their vehicles and so on.

I mostly play 1250-1500

 grouchoben wrote:
2k lets you bring toys. You know, those amazing models you bought that cost a lot of points and money, and are very fun to field? Those guys.

You have to bring troops for board control, hqs for buffing and countering, perhaps some psykers or antipsykers, support units, anti tank, fast objective grabbers, area denial, etc. After all that you generally don't have any points left at 1500pts. That extra 250-500pts normally goes on big cool stuff, and who doesn't want to play with big cool stuff?

This is a big part of it.
The range for pretty much ever single army is a lot bigger than it was 10 years ago let alone 20 years ago. Many armies now have a wide range of variety of choice not just with weapons for troops but for model types themselves. Even the Tyranids who could make Warriors and Carnifex into whatever roll they wanted with weapon choices; now have a swarm of big specialist monster units and several others in medium sizes for various battlefield rolls.

Most people like to take lots of toys to the game; they like to have variety on the board, choices and options and the ability to adapt. Plus with the expansion of content its also created a need for armies to have more answers. Because of increased variety there is equal pressure to have more answers within an army to deal with that wider range of potential opposing forces.


All that encourage people to take a higher points value because it lets them put more variety of models on the table. Yes the game works at 1K points and even at 500, but at around 2000 you start to be able to have a wider range of variety


Plus don't forget if you only get one game a week regularly then if you're only able to use a small number of units it could take weeks or months before you've played with everything you own at least once.

Tourney tryhards always push for bigger games, presumably so they don't have to leave any important bits out of their list due to points restrictions. Sadly nowadays a lot of people only ever play tournament format games (for "practice") and so tourney points, missions, detachment restrictions, etc... become the only way anyone plays.

What grouchoben said.

My friends and I pretty much only play smaller games (1000 - 1500 points) so people do still play them.

Reasons for this;
• I don't like loadsa tanks and super heavies very much, also I'm not a fan of using named characters. As others have said, it is much harder to fit this stuff in smaller games.
• I like a small table packed with terrain, that works a lot better with smaller troop numbers.

I'm lucky though in that the people I play with want the same thing, if I was shaking my booty and touting for action in my local Games Workshop shop then I would probably be playing differently!

auticus wrote:
Because what is tournament standard is also what the rest of us have to use as well otherwise people feel like its' not "real 40k".

The salt does seem to be flowing.

2K games allow people to bring more of the toy soldiers they pay a hefty price for and it helps to balance out some of the armies. Also being the majority of tournaments standard points level it's easy to fall back on.

We are usually playing 1500 vs 1500 to enable newer player to participate or to have games grow to 3000 with 2vs1 if we are an uneven number of players or 2vs2 in case there is a shortage of tables.

It's also much more likely to end after work games before midnight with 1500 point games than it is with 2000 point games.

The local store is running all its events at 850.

Short answer: they aren’t.

Longer answer: there’s a fairly vocal minority of players who have somehow arrived at the consensus that there needs to be some sort of unified, catch-all approach to playing 40K, and part of that paradigm includes playing at c. 2K points.

Btw, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with playing at 2K, if that’s what floats your boat, but it’s not the be all and end all of how 40K can be approached.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Because for some bizarre reason that is what the tournaments have decided as the new standard, despite everything going down in points.

Also, the fact the game is a LOT more lethal with a LOT more models being killed each turn means most games don't last past Turn 3 as it is, thus inflating model counts to get a proper game in.

Almost everything went up in points lol. Meaning a 2000 point army is much more like a 7th eddition 1750 or 1850.

My buddy and I play 1k points every week after our regular RPG group ends. We usually finish the entire game, from setup to take down in 2.5 hours (because by that time it's very late and he has to drive home and I have to go to bed).

I love 1k pt. games. It makes you have to really think about what to include in your list, but I won't deny we're mostly constrained by time and I think if we had more of it, we'd probably play 1500 - 2000 pt games more regularly. I also know at the FLGS I like to attend that we've had 2 escalation leagues go over the summer, the first, was 500/750/1000, and the 2nd one was 750/1000/1250. A lot of guys play 1250-1500 pt games also.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Because for some bizarre reason that is what the tournaments have decided as the new standard, despite everything going down in points.

Also, the fact the game is a LOT more lethal with a LOT more models being killed each turn means most games don't last past Turn 3 as it is, thus inflating model counts to get a proper game in.

That “bizarre reason” being GW stating 2000 was that was what they were designing the game around, and being what the pre-launch playtesters like FLG used. So not “bizarre” at all. Don’t ask me for a link, I’m not trawling through every pre-launch WH Live stream for the timecode!

Because it's the tournament standard. The tournament standards have wide reaching implications on the rest of the game, despite the prevailing belief on dakka that tournament players are the minority.

What are the new rules for FOC and tournament? Or is the 2000 point there to prevent gimmick liest that require list tayloring to fight against. Like two baneblades in a thousand point game.

Our club usually floats around 1500pts. Much easier to get up to a fully painted force that way.

Avor wrote:
It been a while and I always played 1000 point games. I missed a editions by I've seen this site holds alot of 2000 point armies. Is there any reason behind this? Or something should look out for?

Just enough points to capitalize on all the cool stuff your army has, while not being too over the top.

I kind of miss 5th's 1.5k standard. Just enough points for a cool thing or two, but ultimately forcing you to be thrifty and more tactics focused than unit combo focused.

Since my group has gone to playing a lot of Tokenhammer, we've reduced army sizes, since gameplay is slowed down a bit. However, the games are better, and with a different activation system, you don't need 2000 points to have a good game (namely because you're not losing 500+ points before you get to take your turn, etc.).

2,000 points would be quite a decent game for me, but I also don't own a ton of expensive units (superheavies, etc.) despite my painted armies being 5,000+ points each.

As editions moved forward, points changed. Back in 5th edition, 1500pt was the standard, as we moved to 6th and 7th, 1850 became the standard, mostly because of tournaments, superheavies, new armies, and a ton of new big baddies came out between 5th and 8th.

When 8th edition came out, people tallied up their old 1850 lists and they were closer to 2000pt than 1850, so it became the new standard. I remember a good decent amount of "EVERYTHING COST MORE THE GAME IS BROKEN" for a moment when 8th came out.

2k is a result of 8th initially raising points significantly at the start and was more like 1500 in 7th. Codexes are out now which changes that equation but the trend sticks.

I love bigger battles. If I'm going to spend 2-3 hours playing a game then I want to use as many models as I can. That's said, there's no wrong way to play. Some people enjoy more of a skirmish Style which lower point in Kill team handles. Other people only have a few models starting out. Whatever your preference I think you can find someone willing to throw a dice with you.