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So I've been thinking about a SW list to use in smaller games (because that's what we normally play at my FLGS due to time and space constraints, we only have room for 2 permanent 4x4 tables) after my nearly pure CC army got crushed mercilessly in a small tournament a few weeks ago. Here goes:

Batallion:

2x Razorback with twin Assault Cannon

2x 6x Blood Claws
- 2x Wolf Guard Pack Leader with TH/SS

1x 5x Blood Claws
- Pack leader with PF

1x Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf
- TH/SS
- Wulfen Stone
- Saga of the Hunter
- WL

1x Rune Priest with Jump Pack
- Runic Axe
- Armor of Russ
- Psychic Hood
- Powers: Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits

1x Stormfang Gunship
- Twin Lascannon
- Two Twin Heavy Bolters

Total is 1039 points. I tried to keep it within 1000 points but that didn't work unfortunately :( I can remove the TH/SS from the Wolf Guard pack leaders to get it under 1k but that'll make those squads lose a lot of punch unfortunately. For bigger games the list can be expanded by adding additional Blood Claws to the 5-man squad (these will be on outflank duty through Cunning of the Wolf, the 6-man squads will both be riding the Razorbacks), adding a 3rd Razorback (maybe with Lascannons instead of ACs) or maybe even putting an extra beatstick like Arjac in the Stormfang (it can transport Terminator models) or adding my Wulfen squad into the mix.

Battle plan is simple: Move everything forward, kill as many high priority targets in the first turn and try to protect the Razorbacks and Thunder(wolf)lord with the Rune Priests' Stormcaller power. Then hopefully hit CC in the second turn and go Ork in the fight phase. The Stormfang can react to deepstrikers from T2 onward, and the Razorbacks as well after the Blood Claws have disembarked. The focus will primarily be on killing as much of my opponents' army as possible and score VP through "kill this-and-this" objectives, I tried a more subtle approach of using troops primarily to cap objectives but found it not really working, so now I want to try the Orky way of just krumping everything

So what do you think? I'd like as much feedback as you want to give I'd especially like feedback about whether you guys think the Stormfang is any good in this army because that's the only model I haven't bought yet (I like the model well enough but it's not something I'd buy purely for modeling and painting purposes). Please keep in mind that this list will be used in a local meta that is almost exclusively about shooting, no special houserules or anything but the local players here have a real love for shooty Guard and Marine armies. I've been trying to use a more CC-oriented approach against them with my Wolves (because that's what I like and I think it's more fluffy than pure shooty Wolves) but haven't had much luck, so I've decided to increase the shooting effectiveness of my army. That's also the primary reason for adding the Stormfang, it's a very mobile storm of dakka that can take on a wide variety of units effectively anywhere on the board ranging from MEQ all the way to Land Raiders. Its main purpose will be to kill anything with an anti-tank weapon ASAP. The only thing it doesn't kill efficiently is GEQ but no SW unit can really do that, so yeah. I've also thought about adding Long Fangs but those seem a little fragile to me as well as requiring very careful deployment in order to snipe threats (you can quite easily hide that Manticore from a Long Fang squad but there's no hiding from a Stormfang).

Also another more general question: how do you guys play SW post-codex? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around it. SW have gotten a lot of stuff to use once they're in CC but they've hardly gained anything to actually get there. Sure, there's the Wulfen Stone and the Saga of the Hunter but I still find myself having a lot of trouble to reach CC before I'm shot off the board so I'm unable to give my opponents' army a well-deserved krumping for being cowards and hanging around the backline shooting stuff

Cheers and thanks!

edit: made some changes to the Blood Claw squads after I realized that 4 BC + Wolf Guard leader is illegal.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! You don't seem to recommend the Stormfang, primarily because it's vulnerable and expensive. I can understand your point about the Stormfang being relatively vulnerable on a 4x4 because one of it's biggest advantages is the ability to deploy it out of range of long-range antitank; the cost argument I disagree with however. Every SW Heavy Support/ anti-tank option costs an arm and a leg in points, that's just an unfortunate truth we have to live with as a Marine army. Still, I've been thinking about some changes, with the added benefit that the changes I'm proposing will make the entire army consists of models that I already own so it won't cost me any real-life points

Batallion:

2x Razorback with twin Assault Cannon

2x 6x Grey Hunters (start in Razorback)
- 1x GH with Plasma Gun in each squad
- 1x Wolf Guard Pack Leader with combi-plasma in each squad
- Everyone has chainswords

1x 6x Grey Hunters (squad can be expanded in bigger games, these guys are the outflankers)
- 1x GH with Meltagun
- 1x Wolf Guard pack leader with combi-melta.
- Everyone has chainswords

1x Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf
- TH/SS
- Wulfen Stone
- Saga of the Hunter
- WL

1x Rune Priest with Jump Pack
- Runic Axe
- Armor of Russ
- Psychic Hood
- Powers: Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits (might also go for Tempests' Wrath for that -1 to hit to plasma users).

5x Wulfen
- 2x Axe
- 2x TH/SS
- 1x Leader with Frost Claws.

Comments: Changed the Bloodclaws to Grey Hunters with some AT/ TEQ punch. Squads in Razorbacks have plasma because they'll have easy access to the Wolf Lords reroll aura (at least until he charges off into melee), outflanking squad has melta because they will likely not have access to reroll aura's. Ranged troops makes some extra room for an additional CC units so that's where the Wulfen come in. Would've liked them to go wih 4x TH/SS with the new rules but I modeled two of them with Axes so that'll have to do. Still going to be >1000 points I'm afraid so I'll have to cut some options for 1k point games. Thoughts?

Northern85Star wrote:
Your wulfen would be 231 pts instrad of 260. Might be able to get a cyberwolf or two.

Your list lacks heavy hitters though. IK is ging to demolish you.

Well, a properly equipped Wulfen squad krumps an IK pretty hard should they manage to get in CC. But yeah, rather unlikely that people will bring an Questoris or Dominus class IK to an 1k game (at least outside of a tournament setting). Armiger Helverins you'll likely need to be prepared for however.

Azuza001 wrote:
I agree. Either go vehicle heavy or none. One tactic i did for fun at a tournament in my local meta that i didnt care if i won was 10 rhinos all with 5 man blood claw teams in them. Each blood claw team had a power fist. Then i took 3 wolf guard battle leaders with frost axes and jump packs and 2 wolf lords with relic blades and jump packs. I actually won 2 out of 3 games because the list was so stupid it worked. Nothing on the table of value to shoot anti infantry shots at until a tank pops and then my opponents had to kill 5 rhinos to slow the army down.

In this edition you have to run multiple threats or no good targets at all. Wolves can do both when you go all in.

Well, I'm starting to think that transports are of paramount importance to SW anyway. We have 2 excellent troop choices, but both cannot really do work beyond 12" and Claws are only really worth their while in CC. Solution: cram everything you don't outlfank with in Rhino's and Razorbacks and race up the field. Use Razorbacks with Twin Assault Cannons to thin screens for your heavy-duty melee dudes.

Just thought of something: Redemptor Dread with Macro Plasma Incinerator and Keen Senses. Not that it's meta-breaking but I think it's a nice little thing to help it move up the field.

yellowfever wrote:
Looking for your opinion. Which do you think is better, a Razorback with twin assault cannons or a unit of 3 Aggressors. I keep going back and forth trying to decide.

What do you want out of that unit? Their functions are completely different. The Razorback is an offensive transport/ medium fire support vehicle while Aggressors are meant to hold ground. You can use Aggressors offensively but that requires getting them up the field in a Repulsor first.

 cole1114 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
If only drop pods were not so damn expensive. Every time i want to take one i know rhinos are just better. :( maybe chapter approved will fix it?

Chapter approved rumors/leaks has them at 65 Which is pretty nice, especially against smite-heavy armies or ones you can steal objectives from using them.

Might be nice to stuff a plasma squad + a cheap Lord in them in that case.

 Marmatag wrote:

Northern85Star wrote:
Putting a TH in the unit barely diminishes their lethality against infantry, but it makes a HUGE difference if you get countercharged by vehicles or monsters. It is such a good trade that you absolutely must make it. It also means that your TWC arent degraded to MSU against IK.

This is just terrible advice. Maybe things are different in Europe, but, I would never pay the exorbitant price to field a thunder hammer on what is primarily anti-infantry.

TWC have no business fighting a knight. You can get far better rate of return elsewhere. Why overpay for the wolves they ride on, when those are totally useless against true armor? (high T and good save).

If someone is counter-charging your TWC with vehicles you've got silly problems, manifested by bad positioning, and weird opponents.

TH is more effective than Wolf Claw or any other weapon against anything that isn't 1W. Now I'm not suggesting trying to kill a Knight with TWC but they are quite efficient and tough vs most heavy infantry (2-3W, T4-5). Especially if you bring a Thunderlord with Wulfenstone along. AFAIK it's only 6 points over a Wolf Claw so... I get why you are saying they are anti-infantry but they are completely wasted against GEQ. They basically require a storm shield to get where you want them (CC) or be effective as a meatshield so at their cheapest you're looking at a 150 point unit if you take chainswords for 18 anti-GEQ attacks... not worth it. And if you're going for frost weapons or wolf claws for anti-MEQ you might as well shell out the few extra required teef to get those shiny Thunderhammers.

Hell, you could even charge them in against many Knight configurations anyway because T5 3W 3++ is hard to overwatch efficiently for them (just don't be stupid and send them in against a Castellan or Valiant.) so that your special snowflakes (Bjorn, Thunderlord with Wulfenstone and Seeking a Saga strat) can safely krump them.

Now that I think about it... maybe the best way to view these guys is as Assault Terminators that don't require a Land Raider to get anywhere. Still not the best thing ever, but hey.

 Blackie wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
I'd say bring Hammers anywhere you can fit them. TWC leader is a good bet since he has 3 base attacks. If you bring only chainswords or even wolf claws a single Dreadnought (or equivalent) can seriously tarpit them if they don't have a hammer to do some work.

And FWIW I have tried WG bikers (SB/SS) a few times and they just outright suck outside of being a bullet sponge of mediocre survivability. The dakka is impressive on paper against maybe guardsmen or gretchin but against anything else they're just dead weight imo. MAYBE if you can keep them out of LOS for T1 and T2 and capitalize on their speed later on they might have a niche. But don't count on them getting more than one salvo off before getting killed or chargelocked.

Sounds like your metas are full of tanks, monsters and multiwounds models in general. I've never taken a TH in my TWC in this edition and while they are always part of my lists, and not in a single game I missed the hammer. Many times instead I wished I had more anti infantry tools. The Wolf guard bikers are good against hordes, which are IMHO the real hard counter for SW since we can deal with knights and vehicles with a lot of stuff but against hordes we don't have many efficient answers. Even shooty units are basically focussed as anti tank. Seriously, with 2 killy characters, wulfen and another choppy unit that is usually WG termies or a dread plus plasma guns and lascannons I never wished I had more anti tank. Units like wulfen or our heroes, who have amazing profiles, can be tarpitted with no effort by an horde and easily killed by it. Even the full 6 man squad of TWC with 3 claws and shield and 3 dual claws buffed by Arjac and wulfen/wulfen stone is not able to completely clear a 30 man squad with average rolls.

Wolf guard bikers durability isn't an issue, of course you must have a list with targets that compete to soak the same kind of damage. Shots against bikers is damage avoided for long fangs, wulfen or TWC if mid-low strength and damage avoided for razorbacks and the gunship (but also TWC) if anti tank. A five man squad with all storm bolters and 3 shields is 195 points, like 4 TWC with two shields and 1-2 melee weapons which aren't really more durable or more killy.

Guardsmen and gretchins are also among the most competitive units in this moment It's very likely to face a lot of them, and without the tools for killing tons of them SW don't stand a chance against AM and the new orks.

Well, Wolf Guard bikers with Storm Bolters are indeed awesome vs. GEQ hordes, but they are also index-only, and therefore I kinda want to avoid them because the expected life expectancy of index units could be anywhere between 3 months and 5 years (no models yet and I don't want to tool up models with stuff that might be illegal soon).

Hmm, maybe I could use Assault Bolter Inceptors against hordes... but 45 points a pop is kinda expensive for something that doesn't come with a Storm Shield.

Soo... anyone has any clue about what that Stalker Pack formation from Vigilus Defiant is going to entail? Judging from the name might be more Outflanking shenanigans to play with.

 lonewolf81 wrote:

 ajax_xaja wrote:
Long time player, but new to the faction.

Are either of the Christmas battleforce boxes any good for a new Space Wolves player?

I'm leaning on no, since Primaris marines don't seem to see much action, but the value's so high on those boxes...

Of the two, which one fits SW's better?

Wait for CA 2018 and vigilus defiant reviews this weekend to see if primaris have improved with the new point costs and the new special detachments (wolves also get one)

This. A lot of things might change. But yes, as has been said, as things are at this very moment Primaris are of limited use to SW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Karhedron wrote:
Intercessors and Hellblasters are decent for Space Wolves, as they are for all Chapters but overall I would say Wolves need Primaris support the less than other Chapters.

Hellblasters are nice for SW but have far greater synergy with shooty chapters like DA and Ultrasmurfs. Also, Long Fangs just seem better to me with their inherent reroll 1s and their special stratagem. I could see Intercessors being quite nice for SW as an all-purpose midfield unit if they had a good transport option (Probably going to arrive sometime next year with the 2nd wave of Primaris models. And by Russ and the Allfather GIVE THEM ALL THE OPTION TO TAKE A CHAINSWORD!!). Plasma Grey Hunters are far superior to spend (a) CP(s) on for outflanking, so that's out too.

Justyn wrote:
I wouldn't count on TWC having 2pt SS until you see it from GW. I'm hoping they meant it to be for TWC also. But my expectations are a bit lower.

Anyone seen info on the Vigilus Stalker Packs?

Yep. Taken from what I remembered (and hopefully understood correctly) from the Vigilus book review of GMG. Bit of mixed feelings. Very fluffy, a little bit "too fair", but utterly brutal if you can pull it off. Very quick outline:

- Eligible models are Battle Leaders, Blood Claws and Reivers.
- Warlord Trait: Saga of the Savage. +1A when charging (probably also when getting charged or heroically intervening). Deed of legend is to inflict 5 wounds (I thought in a single round of CC?) upon which it becomes a 6" aura.
- Relic: Power Axe with a rather hard to pronounce name, +1S, -2AP, Dd3, inflicts D3 mortal wounds instead of normal damage on an unmodified wound roll of 6.
- Stratagems: Blood Scent: 2 CP, +1 to wound rolls in the fight phase when attacking a unit with a model in it that has already suffered at least 1 damage (or has at least 1 dead model in case of 1W models). 2nd Strat I forgot the name of, but it's 1 CP and lets you roll 3D6 for charge distance and then discard the lowest dice.

Verdict: As I said, it's... decent-ish. I had really hoped that there'd be something for TWC in here but no. I also cannot really find a place for Reivers in this formation because of lack of transport options and no access to PF/TH. Disabling Overwatch on infantry is very nice however and they're quite nasty horde clearers though. If only the dudes could take Wolf Claws... Saga of the Savage on a Battle Leader with the relic axe and SS makes for a very cheap yet decent beatstick. Although to make meeting the deed of legend requirement as easy as possible I'd imagine you want a TH on the dude. A small swarm of Blood Claws affected by Saga of the Savage is quite brutal on the charge (4A each, and you can hide a Power Fist and Thunder Hammer in each squad. No wait, make that a TH/SS on the WL + Wulfen Stone and it's 5A for everyone in 3" of the Battle Leader) and will handily demolish anything that is not T8+ or has a 2+ save, and even T8+ with a 3+ save isn't safe when you can activate Blood Scent against it (Why hello mr. Knight). The big caveat is of course that this combo is quite hard to pull off. You have to get in melee range, succeed mutliple charges, then inflict 5W with the Trait holder. If you do however... prepare for carnage.

Only problem is how to get your little monsters safely in CC. Outflanking them is iffy because it's both expensive and even a 3D6 discard lowest 9" charge is far from guaranteed. Thinking that maybe a Stormwolf might be your best bet for this package. WGBL + a 15-Claw squad (or a 7 and 8 man squad if you want an extra TH and PF and are willing to paint an even bigger target on your Stormwolf) and a Stormwolf with quad HB to keep it cheap and give it screen-clearing capability. Get Stormwolf into a good position, clear screens with dispersed Helfrost cannons and bolters, shoot some vehicle or monsters with your Twin Lascannons (good way to get some damage on a 'ard target to help activate Blood Scent). Pray to the Allfather that your flyer doesn't get blown to bits. Next turn, disembark your little deathstar, charge and go to town.

Justyn wrote:
Thanks Pandabeer!

I found this image for anyone who can tease more out of it. The big takeaway is that you need to have made a successful charge to make a best 2 of 3d6 charge. But Blood Claws being in Bold means Blood Claws keyword correct? Or no? If its keyword and covers Skyclaws and Swiftclaws I can see this getting more use.

Well, that's a bummer for the charge stratagem. Makes outflanking even less viable. But yes, it means Blood Claws keyword, so Sky- and Swiftclaws also qualify for this detachment. Question still remains on how to get those safely across the board without deepstriking, they can't all take Storm Shields like Wolf Guard can. Maybe simply swarm the board with Skyclaws because no Stormwolf means you can take 11-15 extra depending on their loadout (kind of creating a SW Vulcha Skwad).

Edit: Although taking Skyclaws means you'll have to take extra Grey Hunter squads to get those shiny Batallion CPs...

 gwarsh41 wrote:
For the TWC debate, remember that CA2018 overrides all points from CA2017 AND includes those that did not change. If a point value is not in CA2018, it is gone. The only thing you need CA2017 for is missions and stuff like the land raider (assuming those are not included in CA2018)

2pt TWC storm shields is right now, RAW, barring an FAQ from GW, as they are not characters, and they are "other models".

Fellas, we just became the storm shield book! at 2pt i'll be hard pressed NOT to take a wolf guard pack leader in my troops with SS and power weapon! Lone wolf obsec ++3 with 3 wounds? Yes please! Hell, even just storm shield for shenanigans!

Erm, what? The TWC SS point cost is still in the codex and CA did not overwrite that AFAIK. Unless CA literally lists ALL the point values of EVERY codex, changed or not, which seems highly unlikely to me.

 Malkyr wrote:
Multiple playtesters who helped work on the book have basically alluded that no Codex in the last ~8 months was included since they were in testing or not written when they did the Chapter Approved 2018 point changes. The only reason Space Wolves get anything right now is because the basic marine stuff changed.

Space Wolves will get their first "true" CA update next year when Drukhari and Knights do, unless they FAQ it first.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

Ilgoth wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Yes, but thing is apparently SW aren't in CA 2018 (if I'm understanding this correctly) at all and all our point cost reductions are for gear that is avilable to other SM chapters as well (lascannon, SS etc.). And since Wolf Guard =/= Sternguard/ Vanguard Vet etc. (even Wolf Guard Terminators =/= Terminators) they'd still be 16/26 instead of 14/23.

Mellon wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

Ilgoth wrote:

Pandabeer wrote:

edit: wait, does that mean our wolf guard and terminators are still 16/26 points?

No, CA2018 overrules the Codex entries.

Yes, but thing is apparently SW aren't in CA 2018 (if I'm understanding this correctly) at all and all our point cost reductions are for gear that is avilable to other SM chapters as well (lascannon, SS etc.). And since Wolf Guard =/= Sternguard/ Vanguard Vet etc. (even Wolf Guard Terminators =/= Terminators) they'd still be 16/26 instead of 14/23.

Space wolves are in CA 2018 and it looks like someonw actually thought about it.
Wolf guard 14p
Wolf guard terminators 23p

Blood of Kittens has a compilation of photos:
http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2018/11/08/chapter-approved-2018-leak-compilation/

Ah, thanks! My understanding was that SW were completely absent from CA points changes, good to see they are not. That only leaves the TWC matter unresolved.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, attempt at a Stalker Pack list at 1000 points:

Batallion

HQ
- Battle Leader with JP, TH/SS Saga of the Savage and Wulfen Stone
- Rune Priest with Jump Pack, Armor of Russ, Runic Axe, Psychic Hood, Stormcaller and Fury of the Wolf Spirits

Troops
- 3*5x GH with Chainsword
- 2*1x WGPL with Chainsword and Combi-Bolter
- 1*1x WGPL with Chainsword and Boltgun


Fast Attack
- 15x Skyclaws
- Power Fist, TH/SS

Transports
- 3x Razorback with Twin Assault Cannon

999 points + 2 CP.

Battle Plan: Deploy Battle Leader, Rune Priest and Skyclaws as a big blob, move forward, Rune Priest uses Stormcaller on them for cover. Razorbacks move up and shoot stuff. Second turn disembark GHs and shoot stuff with them, Razorbacks shoot again, Try to damage some big stuff for the Blood Scent stratagem. JP blob moves up and is hopefully in assault range by now. Charge in Rune Priest, Battle Leader and Skyclaws and chop stuff. From there do as game flow dictates.

Biggest pro of this list is that you can throw a ton of dice with it. Unfortunately it's also woefully low on AT weaponry. I've been thinking about switching the Assault Cannons on the Razorbacks for Lascannons but that leaves me with rather low screen-clearing capability T1. Thoughts?

Azuza001 wrote:
I find it funny that the wolfen are getting a great deal now with their thunder hammers and storm shields but its twc people are trying to get better. I am with the others who agree RAW twc stay at 10 pts.

But yeah, i am super happy about wolfen. I am looking at them again thinking "you may just see real use again my friends..."

Well, I simply like TWC better as models and in the fluff than Wulfen So for me it kinda sucks that they aren't very good.

Northern85Star wrote:
TWC definitely still get stormshields at 10 pts.

We have 3 stormshield entries in our codex.

Stormshield (Characters)
Stormshield (Thunderwolf cavalry)
Stormshield (Other models)

CA SPECIFICALLY states that only SS (Characters) and SS (Other models) have been changed.

Intended or not, we will have to wait for the errata. For now, it’s 10 pts.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think the price of 10 or so pts for SS on TWC makes sense, as it is so much better on a T5 W3 model... so much so that it could be worth the equivallent of on a character.

That may or may not be the case but the point still stands that 40 points for the base model is too much. If that got the same cost reduction as we would've gained from the SS reduction (so it's be 32) I feel TWC would be more or less fine given that we have multiple ways to boost their A stat.

 Blackie wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Yeah chapter approved didnt do much for thunderwolves. It did make wolfen better though. Why get a great axe when you can get a thunder hammer and storm shield for almost the same cost?

Same reason for TWC storm shields, because the axe is a SW thing. It's going to be cheaper for sure.

WG termies also became a lot better since GW discounted all their basic price, storm shields and power fists. 5 dudes with all SS/PF are now just 170 points. With arjac and wulfen/wulfen stone character they get 21 attacks hitting on 3s, with probably some re-rolls in both to hit and to wound rolls. All models with 3++ and natural deepstrike. If you want arjac anyway, it sounds like a deal.

With Hammers 5 Termies + Arjac is only 350 points... if you're going with Arjac you might as well go full hog on their equipment. Otherwise 170 for a 5-man PF squad sounds very nice.

edit: With all these meta changes remind me to magnetize my next squad though

COLD CASH wrote:
Shadowspear is looking pretty good for us.

Yes... IF SW are allowed to take those guys without having to ham-fist them into an Allied Detachment from Codex SM. GW already put up a middle finger to non-Codex chapters with the Indomitus Crusaders detachment and I fear they might do it again. Flying Autocannons with Keen Senses would be awesome but I hope it will even be allowed.

Azuza001 wrote:


The issue becomes wolves have always been a cc focused force. These days they work better as a close firing/ mid range firepower force. Its a different playstyle and can be off setting since gw is all about "look at these amazing wolf models! Wulfen! Thunderwolves! Vernerable dreads with axes and shields! Dont mind they kinda suck and are overpriced and if you wana win then dont take them because Dey look goods!"

This, a 1000 times this. I started playing SW because I wanted to play crazy space vikings chopping things up and with their current 8th edition iteration I just... can't. SW can be a fairly effective force when played shooty (outflanking plasma GH, Long Fangs rerolling their own 1s and Keen Senses allowing Heavy weapons that have moved to fire without penalty), it just feels so... out of character for them. I really cannot fathom why GW gave SW so many stratagems to use in the fight phase and a chapter tactic that gives you +1 to hit on the charge only to leave us with just Saga of the Hunter and Wulfen advance + charge and charge rerolls to actually get into CC. And then axing the survivability of sword 'n board dreads as well. Hell, at the moment I'm even contemplating just converting them all to World Eaters and playing them as a chaos SW warband in order to get my crazy berserker fix. Although I kind of want to hold out hope that at some point there'll be a good Primaris CC specialist or a good formation for SW that fixes their lack of ways to get stuck in.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So yeah. That shock assault rule will be awesome for us if everything we already have stays the same.

And infiltrating dreadnoughts Now I just hope it's got a decent melee weapon. 3 of those things infiltrating could solve many of SWs' issues getting into CC.

Azuza001 wrote:
What i find interesting is the new codex due out in 2 weeks will grant us access to soooo much. Gw said everything in there can be taken by other marine chapters (wolves/angels). Does this mean we get access to stormravens and ironclad dreadnoughts? If so that would be soooo cool.

A Stormraven would be a quite nice delivery vector for a Wulfen Dread.

 lindsay40k wrote:
Be very careful about investing in a Wolf Priest and a transport. Mainstream chaplains (and dark apostles) have changed their Hit roll aura which requires their feet to be one the table at all times and can fail.

My Dark Apostle no longer rides with Berzerkers, and I’m not even going to bother getting a chaplain for any of my loyalists.

Wolf Priest still works like the old chaplain. First, it's in a different codex, second it uses a different data sheet.

Jimbobbyish wrote:

 darrkespur wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:

Jimbobbyish wrote:
I'm happy about the points drop to WGBL and Wolf lord on thunder wolves! I really do thing the FA section was mistakenly copy and pasted from the index. I cant imagine they would reduce the cost of HQ Thunder wolves and not TWC. I'm also praying for 4~5pt Fenrisian wolves!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I just saw that Ragnar's two wolves Svangir and Ulfgir are now 4pts! there is hope!

Fenrisian wolves dropped to 6pts each.

The FA section is copy pasted from the old index

FAQ is now out. Drop in points of landspeeders, skyclaws and swiftclaws, but everything else (including Thunderwolves) stay the same price. I hope as someone who really likes thunderwolves that means they'll get something nice in PA.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/8fa9c5ab.pdf

I was glad to see stuff was fixed. TWC staying the same is disappointing but their shields dropped in 5 points so that's something. I'm looking forward to Saga of the Beast especially after the stuff Dark Angels got, a lot of their stratagems benefit Terminators and Bikes more then primaris marines. We might see stratagems focusing on TWC and Fenris wolves, also Transhuman Physiology would be great of TWC and Wulfen, if we get it!

On the topic of tactics, I'll be running my TWC with SS and PF, IMO they will still be effective in combat and ill save some points on TH in case (when) they are shot off the table. I'll save the TH for Wolf Lords/WGBL on TWC.

Isn't TransPhys infantry only? TWC are cavalry.

Anyway, I hope for something good for especially TWC but I'm not expecting much because GW has disappointed me too many times already this edition as far as the Wolves go. It's the only army I own that is shelved for gameplay reasons because I view it as nonfunctional even for casual games. White Scars are just literally Space Wolves 2.0 right now (which is how I run my Wolves collection at the moment).

 Dakka Wolf wrote:
I’m hoping for Primaris Wolf Guard.
A Primaris unit with that can be customised by model rather than as a unit with full access to melee weapons and the Storm Shields.

Not gonna happen until they release a Primaris Veterans box with all the required bits for that.

No one posted a pic of the new Ragnar yet? Guess I'll have to bite the bullet then:



Huge improvement over his old model, though I'm not as wowed as by the new Ghazzy model. Definitely going to pick it up though.

Mixed feelings... We STILL didn't get the mobility we need. Hopefully TransPhys and things like that will allow us to hold out until we actually reach CC.

Anyway, maybe a Razorback Grey Hunter rush might be worthwhile. T1 keep GH in Razorbacks. Razorbacks hose down screens with AP-2 Assault Cannons. T2 disembark GH and pour AP-4 plasma into their elites and tanks. T3+ CHARGE FOR THE GLORY OF RUSS AND THE ALLFATHER. Also outflanking Aggressors might be nice. T1 they're protected from enemy fire, T2 they come in and lay down a storm of AP -1 fire and hopefully they'll be in charge distance by T3.

Haven't heard anyone talking about the huge buff our Terminators got... Fury of the Champions/ First is a mild buff for most chapters because of the restrictive loadout of their Terminators. However, every single Wolf Guard Terminator model can take a combi-plasma. I'm sure I don't need to tell you more than that.

Jimbobbyish wrote:
I normaly run my SW with all units on the board, save for long fangs if lack of cover is a issue. With the new stratagems I'm planning to run:

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [79 PL, 1CP, 1,351pts] ++

+ HQ +

Bjorn the Fell-handed [12 PL, 1CP, 204pts]: Heavy flamer, Twin lascannon

Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf [7 PL, 145pts]: Saga of the Wolfkin, Storm shield, The Wulfen Stone, Thunder hammer, Warlord

+ Troops +

3x Grey Hunters [6 PL, 94pts]: 4x Chainsword
. Grey Hunter Pack Leader: Power fist
. 4x Grey Hunter w/Bolt Pistol: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Boltgun, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm shield

+ Elites +

2x Wulfen Dreadnought [8 PL, 104pts]
. Great Wolf Claw and Blizzard Shield
. . Blizzard Shield: Storm bolter
. . Great Wolf Claw: Great Wolf Claw, Storm bolter

+ Heavy Support +

Long Fangs [11 PL, 164pts]
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Missile launcher
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang: Boltgun
. Long Fang Pack Leader: Chainsword
. . Boltgun and Bolt Pistol
. Wolf Guard Terminator Pack Leader: Storm shield
. . Cyclone missile launcher and storm bolter: Cyclone missile launcher, Storm bolter

+ Dedicated Transport +

3x Razorback [5 PL, 116pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Wolves) [32 PL, 624pts] ++

+ HQ +

Wolf Priest [6 PL, 90pts]: Bolt pistol, Jump Pack

+ Fast Attack +

2x Cyberwolves [1 PL, 15pts]: 1 Cyberwolf

2x Suppressor Squad [4 PL, 90pts]
. 2x Suppressor: 2x Accelerator autocannon, 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Grav-chute
. Suppressor Sergeant: Accelerator autocannon, Grav-chute

2x [Thunderwolf Cavalry [8 PL, 162pts]
. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry: Power fist, Storm shield
. Thunderwolf Cavalry Pack Leader: Power fist, Storm shield

Total: 111 PL, 1CP, 1,975pts

I use to run 2x Wulfen but they could not keep up with the razorbacks. I did use to run 1 wulfen squad and 2 min skyclaws with 2 PF each, all DS, the 12" bubble the wulfen provide for bloodclaws helps when DS .

Why don't you have chainswords on your grey hunters? It literally has no cost, points nor in wargear you have to drop.

Ragnar69 wrote:
We have a new book and lots of time due to Corona lockdown and still hardly any new posts here?

I think this clearly shows that the book slightly improved our current tactics but didn't really create new ones.

We have a lot of time to build and paint yes Playing games? Not so much because most people don't want to meet IRL just to play a game right now. So unless you have a housemate/partner/child to play with most people won't be able to play for a while.

 Niiai wrote:
Lanspeeders, landraiders, attack bikes and dreadnoughts are back in 9th edition?

At least Land Raiders. Wonder what category Flamestorm Cannons will be though. Hope that flamer weapons will be special-cased to work in Engagement Range even though they're technically Blast weapons. That would make Land Raider Redeemers Emperor-damned awesome.

Also Razorbacks. Now you'll be able to charge into the fray after dropping your cargo with them like a Rhino would AND keep shooting your twin Assault cannon.

I feel the Wolves have gotten a ton of new options with the new rules and the new models from the Indomitus box (ASSAULT PRIMARIS! Finally some worthy units to sent along with Ragnar in an Impulsor).