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C&C please. No wrong answers.

POINTS: 1967
<PL>: 102

++ BATTALION DETACHMENT +5CP (DAEMON) [1252PTS] ++

<9> Daemon Prince of Khorne [146pts]: Malefic talon [0], Daemonic Axe [10], Wings [24]
<4> Poxbringer [70pts]: Balesword [0]
<17> Lord of Change [320pts]: Staff of Tzeentch [0], WARLORD, The Impossible Robe [0]

<3> Nurglings [54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms w/ Diseased Claws and Teeth [0]
<3> Nurglings [54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms w/ Diseased Claws and Teeth [0]
<3> Nurglings [54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms w/ Diseased Claws and Teeth [0]

<16> Plague Drones [306pts]: 8x Plague Drones and 1x Plaguebringer w/ Death’s heads [0], Plagueswords [0], and
Prehensile Proboscis [0]. 1x Instrument of Chaos [10]
<11> Plague Drones [204pts]: 5x Plague Drones and 1x Plaguebringer w/ Death’s heads [0], Plagueswords [0], and
Prehensile Proboscis [0].

++ SUPREME COMMAND DETACHMENT +1CP (THOUSAND SONS) [715PTS] ++

<9> Ahriman on Disc of Tzeentch [166pts]: Black Staff of Ahriman [0], Blades of Disc of Tzeentch [0], Frag
Grenade [0], Krak Grenade [0], Inferno Bolt Pistol [0]
<9> Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [146pts]: 2x Malefic talon [10], Wings [24], Warp bolter [3]
<9> Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [146pts]: 2x Malefic talon [10], Wings [24], Warp bolter [3]
<9> Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [146pts]: 2x Malefic talon [10], Wings [24], Warp bolter [3]

++ RESERVES [33PTS] ++

<2> Chaos Spawn [33pts]




Warlord Trait
Incorporeal Form (vs heavy gunline) or Born of Sorcery (vs the rest)

Spell Selection
Poxbringer: Miasma of Pestilence (6)
Lord of Change: Bolt of Change (8), Infernal Gateway (8), Treason of Tzeentch (8)
Ahriman: Doombolt (9), Infernal Gaze (5), Death Hex (8) or Diabolic Strength (6)
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Glamour of Tzeentch (7), Tzeentch’s Firestorm (7)
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Warptime (6), Gift of Chaos (6)
Daemon Prince of Tzeentch: Gaze of Fate (6), Weaver of Fates (6)

edit: Obviously will be buying Helm of the Third Eye, and where applicable I'll be buying Skullreaver. Impossible Robe gives the bird a passive 3++, he's no Magnus but he can get to 2++ with a stratagem. Might be a bit difficult to deal with. Deep strike the bird or a squad of drones will help me deploy defensively. Deepstrike a squad of drones and just -1 to hit the bird and the remaining drones, should be hard to score vs.

only thing i would change swap a squad of drones for 30 plaguebearers, they are durable they are troops they have -1 to hit built in (-2 with miasma) they protect all your characters, btw the list is strong

Well I have the plaguebearers, and certainly considered it, but is the lack of speed worth the trade off? The support staff benefits plaguebearers more as well, +1 str aura (poxbringer) actually impacts bearers but not drones (they are Str4 weapons). And the sloppity bilepiper keeps up with the bearers but the drones out run him.

So yeah, 30 Plaguebearers is the same cost as 6 Plague drones. Thats 30 (T4) vs 24 (T5) wounds. I'll admit the -1 to hit is good, more durable than T5 initially, but once they are below 20 they are less durable than T5. I feel like durability wise they are the same.

However, the footprint of 30 bearers is bigger than 6 drones too, with OBSEC that is worth something for sure. But the speed of them makes them more or less useless for the first two turns. I really can't decide.

Thanks for the feedback mate, still considering plaguebearer's home in this list.

usually i run PB's with scrivener so the speed issue is solved, they get average 11" move (7+d6+1 for the instrument), they aren't slow at all, they can easily control 2 objective and then they cant be ignored.

quick question: with what stratagem you can improve your save to 2++? Because in my Codex under Warp Surge I read "to a maximum of 3++... Anything I'm missing?
(btw if I'm right I would probably drop the LoC in favour of 2 Daemon Princes)

is not just the stratagem... impossoble robe set your save to 4++, stratagem gives you 3++ then ephimereal form gives you +1 to DICE ROLL, so you save on every roll of 2+.remeber when stratagem is active you cant re roll any inv. save. In most cases 2 Dp's are superior to LOC, then most depend by list and the role you expect for LOC, with that 2++ is a great bullet sponge.

.

 blackmage wrote:
is not just the stratagem... impossoble robe set your save to 4++, stratagem gives you 3++ then ephimereal form gives you +1 to DICE ROLL, so you save on every roll of 2+.remeber when stratagem is active you cant re roll any inv. save. In most cases 2 Dp's are superior to LOC, then most depend by list and the role you expect for LOC, with that 2++ is a great bullet sponge.

I see... I believe this will probably be FAQed, but for now you seem to be right!

LoC's don't have enough board impact for the 2++ to be that big a deal. It's not like he's going around wiping a unit a turn by himself. At best he's a giant annoying bird that flies around buffing your dudes every turn and maybe kills a 5-man squad or character occasionally. One of my all time favorite models though, I need to run him sometime...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, your list looks really fast and scary.

Appreciate the input everyone. I'm hoping the LoC will simply never die, so I can use him as a screen once all the plague drones die. edit: to protect my DP once they start assaulting.

The new beta FAQ says only characters under 10 wounds are ignored for the character rule, so this massive bird still has to die first if he's the closest unit.

I think if I play it right, that will be worth it. But I take the point. Right now he's closest to being on the chopping block, and adding a plaguebearer block + sloppity/scrivener. Thanks for the food for thought.

 Dampyr Blackblade wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
is not just the stratagem... impossoble robe set your save to 4++, stratagem gives you 3++ then ephimereal form gives you +1 to DICE ROLL, so you save on every roll of 2+.remeber when stratagem is active you cant re roll any inv. save. In most cases 2 Dp's are superior to LOC, then most depend by list and the role you expect for LOC, with that 2++ is a great bullet sponge.

I see... I believe this will probably be FAQed, but for now you seem to be right!

it will not be Faqed it is nothing to faq, that "combo" went out since the day demon codex was released and no one ever felt the need to faq, dont worry it will not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

barboggo wrote:
LoC's don't have enough board impact for the 2++ to be that big a deal. It's not like he's going around wiping a unit a turn by himself. At best he's a giant annoying bird that flies around buffing your dudes every turn and maybe kills a 5-man squad or character occasionally. One of my all time favorite models though, I need to run him sometime...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, your list looks really fast and scary.

that's the main reason why you dont so many LOC played, better use a Dp with impossible robe he still saves at 2++ if needed but is more killy.

 blackmage wrote:

 Dampyr Blackblade wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
is not just the stratagem... impossoble robe set your save to 4++, stratagem gives you 3++ then ephimereal form gives you +1 to DICE ROLL, so you save on every roll of 2+.remeber when stratagem is active you cant re roll any inv. save. In most cases 2 Dp's are superior to LOC, then most depend by list and the role you expect for LOC, with that 2++ is a great bullet sponge.

I see... I believe this will probably be FAQed, but for now you seem to be right!

it will not be Faqed it is nothing to faq, that "combo" went out since the day demon codex was released and no one ever felt the need to faq, dont worry it will not.

I mean I think they will change it in order to make it impossible to get a 2++, just as they changed Tide of Traitors because it was too powerful, etc.
Anyway I still vote for the Daemon Prince/s

they will not change, actually have a 2++ (NOT RE ROLLING 1's) with the amount of firepower and mortal wounds around, is not so difficult to overcome like was in 7th.