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Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




So scions are a complicated army to play when trying to stay competitive. I'll point out the bonuses and negatives I've found playing with them and then ask you guys your opinions

Bonuses:
Plasma
Extra shots on 6s in rapid fire range
Reroll all wound rolls against vehicles and monsters
Can deepstrike into rapid fire range

Melta
When in melta range each six gives you another roll
Reroll all wounds against monsters and vehicles

Universal Bonuses
Yarrick - reroll 1s to hit so you can use your order on rerolling all wounds
Laurels of Command - Give plasma reroll 1s and reroll all wounds on a 4+ to avoid dying from overcharging

Negatives
If they have setup deepstrike blockers well then your plasma and melta won't have much to shoot at that's relevant
Good chance plasma won't be in rapid fire range for 2 shots and explosive 6s, melta can't deepstrike into melta range
Scions out in the open are just too easy to kill. 4+ with no invuln, 1 wound and t3. Even with go to ground they die quite quickly. And they can always just shoot another unit

Counter
Transports
Valks
are good because you can get out after movement, but have to disembark 9 inches away. If they've set up their army well even with movement after disembarkation you won't be with 6 inches with your melta and probably not within 12 with your plasma of what you want them to be in range of if you go first. If you end up going second and they shoot you valks out of the sky then you're left with foot slogging highly expensive troops
Taurox Prime
Fast, BS3 and good guns that explode on 6s at half range. Issue is their costs can be the same as a valk, only t6 and only have a capacity of 10. If you fit a 10 man squad of scions to max out on special weapons then there is not room for a Tempestor Prime to give orders. If you bring your TP down from deepstrike they may set up their force to prevent him from being able to give orders to a unit that's come out of a Taurox, and he also can't come down turn 1 outside of your deployment zone.
If you bring a second taurox you'd need to do something like bring 8 or 9 scions with max 2 special weapons to give him room to fit inside, or a command squad.
Biggest issue is getting the taurox to where you want them to go. Jumping out of them is great, getting essentially 9 inches plus base length towards what you want to get near to turn 2 but it doesn't guarantee your melta and plasma will be where you want them to be, and if you want to jump out turn 3 the taurox's are most likely dead by then.
Chimeras
If you bring a regular guard detachment you can bring chimeras instead, T7, transport capacity of 12 and cheaper. Can take double heavy flamer and be catachan for re rolling number of shots. Great for overwatch and taking out things like alaitoc flyers with -3 to hit them. Issue again is the points investment, not hard to kill, and even if you jump out of them your scions might not be in a good position anyway.

With all of that summarized the question I have is this. What Imperium army do you pair them up with to help lessen the effects of the issues I've spoken about.
ie. what would models/army would help with the following?
-Killing of deepstrike blockers
-Killing of chaf that stops models getting out of transports get to where they need to go
-Drawing fire away from the Chimeras (such as a Knight) to keep them alive going into turn 2 and 3
-Forces the opponent to come to you (hidden wyverns/manticores/mortar team) to bring enemy models closer to your threat range when coming out of transports, and means less turns going up the board to bring your scions where they need to go.
-Helps keep your scions alive once they've jumped out of their transports or deepstruck by killing infantry killing enemies or locking them up in CC preventing them from shooting up your scions
-Use with fortifications?
-Anything else I may have missed.

Lastly, what's your composition of scions that you think would be most efficient? 20%, 50% 75% of your army?

Thanks for reading, I get that not many people use scions but I've got about 150 of them

Any feedback would be much appreciated, cheers

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




I think a 50-75% could potentially work.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




What would you pair them with to make help cover their weaknesses?
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

This is an idea I’m formulating now. The patrol detachment and the Valkyries (once they’ve dropped their Melta squads) are my main anti-infantry. The idea is to not traditionally alpha Strike, but rather, progressively strike when the enemy opens himself up. Plasma squads will do their plasma thing, and the two volley gun squads will drop where I see fit to take bases or provide support. The battle cannon Tauroxes act as a ranged damage dealer.

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [39 PL, 946pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 49pts]: Grand Strategist, Power sword, Tempestus Command Rod, The Tactical Auto-Reliquary of Tyberius, Warlord

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 49pts]: Power sword, Tempestus Command Rod

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 88pts]
. Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 88pts]
. Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 88pts]
. Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Meltagun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 68pts]
. Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 68pts]
. Scion: Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-Shot Lasgun, Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Elites +

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 88pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 88pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Taurox Prime [6 PL, 136pts]: Heavy Stubber, Taurox Battle Cannon, Two Autocannons

Taurox Prime [6 PL, 136pts]: Heavy Stubber, Taurox Battle Cannon, Two Autocannons

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [24 PL, 474pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Millitarum Tempestus

+ Flyer +

Valkyries [8 PL, 158pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Valkyries [8 PL, 158pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

Valkyries [8 PL, 158pts]
. Valkyrie: 2x Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser
. . 2x Heavy Bolters: 2x Heavy bolter

++ Patrol Detachment (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [28 PL, 564pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Millitarum Tempestus

+ HQ +

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 49pts]: Power sword, Tempestus Command Rod

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 95pts]
. 7x Scion: 7x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Vox-caster: Hot-shot Laspistol, Vox-caster
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [5 PL, 100pts]
. 9x Scion: 9x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Elites +

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad [3 PL, 88pts]
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun
. Tempestus Scion: Plasma gun

+ Dedicated Transport +

Taurox Prime [6 PL, 116pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns

Taurox Prime [6 PL, 116pts]: Storm Bolter, Taurox Gatling Cannon, Two Hot-shot Volley Guns

++ Total: [91 PL, 1984pts] ++

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in gb
Stalwart Space Marine




If you're looking at a heavy scion army, don't overlook regular hellgun scions. They're remarkably point-efficient at killing the sort of light and medium infantry that plasma guns are wasted on. Plus they can benefit from FRFSRF which is amazing.
   
Made in us
Lone Wolf Sentinel Pilot






Iowa

momerathe wrote:
If you're looking at a heavy scion army, don't overlook regular hellgun scions. They're remarkably point-efficient at killing the sort of light and medium infantry that plasma guns are wasted on. Plus they can benefit from FRFSRF which is amazing.


So much yes

If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed. 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

I've run them for several games now alongside my Adepta Sororitas-- not that I'm recommending that combo, but it works for me. There's not so much list synergy as offering a solid beta strike to the Sisters' alpha. I run 3x minmaxed units with plasma, a command of volley guns, and two Primes. The Battalion gives me enough extra CP to keep the orders flowing. They nearly always earn their points back, consistently deliver mission objectives, and are great at finishing off resilient units. Big fan... lists in my sig.

   
Made in us
Stubborn Eternal Guard





Alaska

I used a ST Battalion for the first time in my most recent game. I also had a Tallarn Battalion and a Tallarn Spearhed Det. Previously I had been using ST as additional squads in my Tallarn Battalions/Brigades. Based on the WYSWYGW for my current ST minis I used 5 man teams. Each squad had Tempestors with Plasma Pistols. Squad 1 had 2 melta guns. the other squads had 1 plasma guns. The Tempestor Prime had a bolt pistol and the Tactical Auto-Reliquary of Tiberius. I am considering retaining the 5 man squad size to minimize the unit footprint which gives more opportunities to have the whole unit in cover.

The three squads evaporated a Dark Angel 10 man Tactical Squad when they deep striked in Turn 2 and would have secured the 2 DA objectives if we were able to have a third turn.

My new list is the same as above with the addition of vox casters to each squad. After I get a Valkyrie, a Taurox Prime and some more minis I will have 2 plasma guns in the 2 plasma squads. I am considering a 10 man anti-Infantry hotshot lasgun squad for the Taurox Prime. I also have some Rogue Trader era Jump Troops that I will be using for a plasma Command Squad once I get them painted. http://www.collecting-citadel-miniatures.com/wiki/index.php/File:IC_Jump_trooper_1.jpg

May the dice be with you!  
   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Manchester, UK

I've been experimenting with a Stormtrooper patrol/battalion detachment alongside my Guard brigade. Keeping them separate allows you to keep doctrines on all of the units and maybe pick up a few more CP. You can also use your first turn of fire to strip screens from good drop targets. I used to use drop Stormtroopers all of the time in 7th. Now that there are no reserve rolls and no scatter, they have become a true scalpel unit.

My standard idea is to take a Tempestor with rod and two full units. Ideally I would take 4xplasma and a plasma pistol in each squad, although due to model limitations I have been taking one plasma and one melta squad. This can also be modified into a small battalion with Tempestor, 3x5man squads and something like a Commissar Lord or Psyker to go with the main force.

The Tvashtan 422nd "Fire Leopards" - Updated 19/03/11

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor 
   
 
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