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Hi I've sometimes wondered what the names of xenos vehicles and other units represent; for example what does the word "Hammerhead" actually mean to the Tau?

IMO there's two ways to think of this:

#1 Direct translation:
The Tau have named the tank after a marine creature on the Tau homeworld and "Hammerhead" is the closest English/Gothic translation to that.

#2 Imperial reporting name:
The tank is actually named something completely different, but some bureaucrat in the Imperium decided that 'Hammerhead' would be a good thing to designate it as; partially because they don't want Space Marines etc speaking filthy xenos tongue but also so that there's a uniform name for Imperial forces to recognise, like NATO reporting names

Using the reporting names will tie-in with how GW often presents the 40K universe from the Imperial perspective though I know that there are still exceptions; for example the Eldar Fire Dragons are specifically named after the "dragon of Eldar myth, the sinuous fire-breathing reptile that represents wanton destruction".

I think initially GW intended names like "Devilfish" and "Tetra" to be Imperial code names. But more recent kits, like the Riptide, seem to be Tau names.

 SDFarsight wrote:
Hi I've sometimes wondered what the names of xenos vehicles and other units represent; for example what does the word "Hammerhead" actually mean to the Tau?

IMO there's two ways to think of this:

#1 Direct translation:
The Tau have named the tank after a marine creature on the Tau homeworld and "Hammerhead" is the closest English/Gothic translation to that.

#2 Imperial reporting name:
The tank is actually named something completely different, but some bureaucrat in the Imperium decided that 'Hammerhead' would be a good thing to designate it as; partially because they don't want Space Marines etc speaking filthy xenos tongue, but also so that there's a uniform name for Imperial forces to recognise, like NATO reporting names

Personally I prefer the 2nd option as it leaves room for extra fluff for what the units could actually mean, and it also ties in with GW's habit of showing the 40K universe from the Imperial perspective. I know there are exceptions though, as the Fire Dragons are specifically named after a fire-breathing eldar beast.

I think its more a combination. Firstly, the Imperium would not know that they named it after a Hammerhead-shark like creature or that the word points to this species of ancient marine animal from M3 Terra. If they did, that would mean they'd be close enough to Exterminatus T'au and destroy the Empire instead of studying fauna. That would suggest a translation in effect but likely that translation is "Sea beast hammer face."

Secondly, the Imperium does indeed use NATO style names, Its why they are all able to identify the myriad of Ork vehicles despite the non-standardisation of Ork tech. A "Shoota" is an Ork Gothic word, appropriated for Imperial designation, but simply refers to any man-portable automatic weapon, and covers a range of weapon classes including assault rifles, SMGs and automatic shotguns. Similarly, "War Buggy" is an umbrella term, maybe appropriated from Ork-Gothic, to describe any vehicle designed for light recon or fire support, crew by 1 to 2 orks. A Trukk is any vehicle designed for transporting small squads of Orks. Equivalent to Land Speeders or Chimera respectively. But those vehicles could be wheel, tracked, hovering, with 2 crew, 4 crew, with various weapons etc.

Fire Dragons are more akin to the Tau with translations simplified down, however the Imperium also has a working understanding of Eldar language (working as Eldar language also relies heavily on body language, facial expression, and psychic prods) so its more a simplification of the terms rather than a Nato term. The Eldar Version would like come out if directly translated as "Warriors in the semblance of the great serpent who's breath burns all to ash and brimstone, who seek precision destruction in the shadow of the drake's fiery wings." So the Magos simple listed them as Fire Dragons.

 Deadshot wrote:

 SDFarsight wrote:
Hi I've sometimes wondered what the names of xenos vehicles and other units represent; for example what does the word "Hammerhead" actually mean to the Tau?

IMO there's two ways to think of this:

#1 Direct translation:
The Tau have named the tank after a marine creature on the Tau homeworld and "Hammerhead" is the closest English/Gothic translation to that.

#2 Imperial reporting name:
The tank is actually named something completely different, but some bureaucrat in the Imperium decided that 'Hammerhead' would be a good thing to designate it as; partially because they don't want Space Marines etc speaking filthy xenos tongue, but also so that there's a uniform name for Imperial forces to recognise, like NATO reporting names

Personally I prefer the 2nd option as it leaves room for extra fluff for what the units could actually mean, and it also ties in with GW's habit of showing the 40K universe from the Imperial perspective. I know there are exceptions though, as the Fire Dragons are specifically named after a fire-breathing eldar beast.

I think its more a combination. Firstly, the Imperium would not know that they named it after a Hammerhead-shark like creature or that the word points to this species of ancient marine animal from M3 Terra. If they did, that would mean they'd be close enough to Exterminatus T'au and destroy the Empire instead of studying fauna. That would suggest a translation in effect but likely that translation is "Sea beast hammer face."

Secondly, the Imperium does indeed use NATO style names, Its why they are all able to identify the myriad of Ork vehicles despite the non-standardisation of Ork tech. A "Shoota" is an Ork Gothic word, appropriated for Imperial designation, but simply refers to any man-portable automatic weapon, and covers a range of weapon classes including assault rifles, SMGs and automatic shotguns. Similarly, "War Buggy" is an umbrella term, maybe appropriated from Ork-Gothic, to describe any vehicle designed for light recon or fire support, crew by 1 to 2 orks. A Trukk is any vehicle designed for transporting small squads of Orks. Equivalent to Land Speeders or Chimera respectively. But those vehicles could be wheel, tracked, hovering, with 2 crew, 4 crew, with various weapons etc.

Fire Dragons are more akin to the Tau with translations simplified down, however the Imperium also has a working understanding of Eldar language (working as Eldar language also relies heavily on body language, facial expression, and psychic prods) so its more a simplification of the terms rather than a Nato term. The Eldar Version would like come out if directly translated as "Warriors in the semblance of the great serpent who's breath burns all to ash and brimstone, who seek precision destruction in the shadow of the drake's fiery wings." So the Magos simple listed them as Fire Dragons.

Interesting.

As for the Tau you mean that the Imperium wouldn't know or care that the Tau have fauna like that, but they've gained a rough translation from what little they've heard from the water caste plus some educated guesses from the Ordo Xenos?

Sea beast hammer face

 SDFarsight wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 SDFarsight wrote:
Hi I've sometimes wondered what the names of xenos vehicles and other units represent; for example what does the word "Hammerhead" actually mean to the Tau?

IMO there's two ways to think of this:

#1 Direct translation:
The Tau have named the tank after a marine creature on the Tau homeworld and "Hammerhead" is the closest English/Gothic translation to that.

#2 Imperial reporting name:
The tank is actually named something completely different, but some bureaucrat in the Imperium decided that 'Hammerhead' would be a good thing to designate it as; partially because they don't want Space Marines etc speaking filthy xenos tongue, but also so that there's a uniform name for Imperial forces to recognise, like NATO reporting names

Personally I prefer the 2nd option as it leaves room for extra fluff for what the units could actually mean, and it also ties in with GW's habit of showing the 40K universe from the Imperial perspective. I know there are exceptions though, as the Fire Dragons are specifically named after a fire-breathing eldar beast.

I think its more a combination. Firstly, the Imperium would not know that they named it after a Hammerhead-shark like creature or that the word points to this species of ancient marine animal from M3 Terra. If they did, that would mean they'd be close enough to Exterminatus T'au and destroy the Empire instead of studying fauna. That would suggest a translation in effect but likely that translation is "Sea beast hammer face."

Secondly, the Imperium does indeed use NATO style names, Its why they are all able to identify the myriad of Ork vehicles despite the non-standardisation of Ork tech. A "Shoota" is an Ork Gothic word, appropriated for Imperial designation, but simply refers to any man-portable automatic weapon, and covers a range of weapon classes including assault rifles, SMGs and automatic shotguns. Similarly, "War Buggy" is an umbrella term, maybe appropriated from Ork-Gothic, to describe any vehicle designed for light recon or fire support, crew by 1 to 2 orks. A Trukk is any vehicle designed for transporting small squads of Orks. Equivalent to Land Speeders or Chimera respectively. But those vehicles could be wheel, tracked, hovering, with 2 crew, 4 crew, with various weapons etc.

Fire Dragons are more akin to the Tau with translations simplified down, however the Imperium also has a working understanding of Eldar language (working as Eldar language also relies heavily on body language, facial expression, and psychic prods) so its more a simplification of the terms rather than a Nato term. The Eldar Version would like come out if directly translated as "Warriors in the semblance of the great serpent who's breath burns all to ash and brimstone, who seek precision destruction in the shadow of the drake's fiery wings." So the Magos simple listed them as Fire Dragons.

Interesting.

As for the Tau you mean that the Imperium wouldn't know or care that the Tau have fauna like that, but they've gained a rough translation from what little they've heard from the water caste plus some educated guesses from the Ordo Xenos?

Precisely. They wouldnt have any way of knowing the fauna of T'au, because if they were close enough to study it, they'd be close enough to Exterminatus it, which they would do immediately and end the upstart Empire. However, they know enough from speaking with T'au envoys such as the Water Caste, or possible Fire Caste commanders when operating a joint campaign, to know that they call the tank a Hammerhead or a Sunshark bomber. However, those translating roughly from T'au wouldn't really be able to translate word for word. As with our modern languages, a phrase doesn't always translate literally. So "large floating beast hammer blow shark" ends up as "Hammerhead." This might also be a feedback loop.

Say an Imperial and Empire envoy come together. The Imperial says "Hammerhead," pointing at the tank, to which the Tau envoy returns and repeats this in T'au, explaining that it translates as such. Then when the Fire Caste and Imperial Guard meet on campaign, the T'au says "my vehicles, the ones your kind names "Hammerheads"..." Or, vice versa. Maybe the Imperial Command says "Deploy your Hammerheads here" and then explains "these ones with the massive cannons."

Sea beast hammer face

All the Tyranid Lore is Imperial Reports or the odd Eldar report. Ergo there is nothing about Tyranids written by Tyranids at all.


In general the main reason is because its a lot easier to read the lore if everything is called the same thing by different faction, more or less. It would be much harder if each unit had 10 or so names based upon which faction was speaking in the lore. It makes it simpler and easier to read and get into as a reader without having to be a die hard fan and draw up spreadsheets of names for reference.

You notice it more in 40K because you can have multiple factions speaking with their own voice in their own story; whilst most other fantasy or sci fi stories tend to limit the range of actors/sides speaking to a select few or even just one side (and even then will often use standard names for a variety of reasons including reader clarity) .


Though if you want a lore reason then assume that every text you read is faithfully translated by Imperial scribes, even if after reading Xenos or Chaos documents they were later killed for reading such material.

We know that the Eldar names for Tyranids are not what we see in the Tyranid Codex, which shows the Imperial names.

In the Eldar focused novel Valedor for example, the Eldar called Gaunts "Hounds of the Ravening", and Gargoyles "Twisted Flesh Wing". These are obviously English translations of whatever the Eldar term is.

 Overread wrote:
All the Tyranid Lore is Imperial Reports or the odd Eldar report. Ergo there is nothing about Tyranids written by Tyranids at all.


In general the main reason is because its a lot easier to read the lore if everything is called the same thing by different faction, more or less. It would be much harder if each unit had 10 or so names based upon which faction was speaking in the lore. It makes it simpler and easier to read and get into as a reader without having to be a die hard fan and draw up spreadsheets of names for reference.

You notice it more in 40K because you can have multiple factions speaking with their own voice in their own story; whilst most other fantasy or sci fi stories tend to limit the range of actors/sides speaking to a select few or even just one side (and even then will often use standard names for a variety of reasons including reader clarity) .


Though if you want a lore reason then assume that every text you read is faithfully translated by Imperial scribes, even if after reading Xenos or Chaos documents they were later killed for reading such material.

If you want to go really meta then we're reading the English(or whatever else your reading 40k in) translations of the Gothic texts. Hell, if you wanna to go even more meta, then you could consider 40k to be just old stories, that are being told in an even farther future, that are then translated to English.

An important piece of this puzzle (for Aeldari at least) is that the names are indeed mean to represent animals and other things that are familiar to the Eldar.
Warp Spiders, for example, are named after a small eight legged arthropod that is often seem on Wraithbone structures. It has the ability to "warp" to different points using the infinity circuit of a Craftworld.
All Aspect warriors are named for things in ancient Aeldari mythic cycles. They are literally the "aspects" of their War-god Khaine.

So in that regard, the English names are translations of such, rather than the Imperial designations.

Have you even read the fluff ? Tau was, briefly, studied by the Imperium. They were on Tau. So they may know its fauna. That's how they acknowledged that it was the same specie that entered illegaly into Imperial Space a few thousands years later.

 godardc wrote:
Have you even read the fluff ? Tau was, briefly, studied by the Imperium. They were on Tau. So they may know its fauna. That's how they acknowledged that it was the same specie that entered illegaly into Imperial Space a few thousands years later.

To be fair, info can and often is lost in the bureaucracy of the Imperium after a few thousand years.
They may have recognized the sentient species as the same, but could have easily forgotten what the local fauna was like, much less the ancient Terra equivalents.

At the end of the day, the naming conventions are for us, the players, and are unlikely to truly reflect the languages used in the 41st millennium

-

Also if I studied the fauna of Earth 65 million years ago I'd not exactly know modern fauna

 Galef wrote:

 godardc wrote:
Have you even read the fluff ? Tau was, briefly, studied by the Imperium. They were on Tau. So they may know its fauna. That's how they acknowledged that it was the same specie that entered illegaly into Imperial Space a few thousands years later.

To be fair, info can and often is lost in the bureaucracy of the Imperium after a few thousand years.
They may have recognized the sentient species as the same, but could have easily forgotten what the local fauna was like, much less the ancient Terra equivalents.

At the end of the day, the naming conventions are for us, the players, and are unlikely to truly reflect the languages used in the 41st millennium

-

If I remember correctly the Tau were scheduled to be purged before a warp storm cut their home world off and the IOM just kinda forgot about them until wiping them out would eat up to many resources.

The Eldar names are indeed recognized by both the Eldar and Imperium. Terms like Warp Spider, Fire Dragon and Striking Scorpion are used by both factions. The individual Eldar following one of these disciplines might have other interpretation of their group, but among the Eldar in general what the Imperials refer to them is acceptable.

However, according to Savage Scar and Courage and Honor, the Imperial designation of Tau vehicles and battlesuits are entirely made up by the Imperials. Even the term Greater Good has a very different and complex meaning in Tau language. The Tau express displeasure in this: because the Imperium is so large and deals with many other races, the Eldar, Orks and Chaos forces would refer to Tau units with degraded names as if these were what the Tau originally intend.