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This is my first try at a WH40K list, i chose models i already on (Betrayal at Calth) and models i just like (like Hellbrutes and the Warpsmith). I'm not sure how to run it, probably put the Warpsmith with the Hellbrutes and the Lord with the Havocs. What are your thoughts?



++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [82 PL, 1486pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark, Plasma pistol, Power sword

Warpsmith [5 PL, 76pts]: 3. Unholy Fortitude, Bolt pistol, Flamer, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, Power axe, Warlord

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 156pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 161pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun
. Marine w/ special weapon: Plasma gun

Chaos Space Marines [9 PL, 155pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 7x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 124pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Multi-melta

Helbrute [7 PL, 124pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Multi-melta

Helbrute [7 PL, 122pts]: Helbrute fist, Helbrute fist, Mark of Khorne

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [7 PL, 165pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Missile launcher

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Khorne

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 83pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark

Chaos Rhino [4 PL, 83pts]: Combi-bolter, Havoc launcher, No Chaos Mark

++ Total: [82 PL, 1486pts] ++

First off, it looks like you're trying to play a thematic Iron Warriors list, and I respect the heck out of that - it all depends on how competitive your local opponents are really.

I'm a bit confused about the two Rhinos - one looks like the ride for the plasma gun squad, but what's the other one do? Attempt to give the squad a ride if the other one bites it? Provide a second target?

I dunno if you'll find the Multi-Meltas on the Helbrutes to be worth their points - if you're static, then the 3+ to hit is good, but at 24" range, you're hoping that your opponent blunders their vehicles into the range of the weapon. If you're moving, you're looking at a 4+ to hit for both the melta and the missile launcher, which is 50/50 odds on a rather expensive gun!

I like the idea of missile launcher havocs - against a horde army you've got 4D6 shots from frag missiles, with the benefit of krak missiles against heavy targets. The general consensus I've picked up from these boards though is lascannons or autocannons are a better fit - lascannons for that extra bit of strength, and autocannons for a better rate of fire against light vehicles. If you've got missiles and want to run missiles though, more power to you - I too like my missile launchers, so it's not the worst thing in the world!

I'm just not sure what your strategy is here - you've only really got the two forward assault units, and that's the Helbrute with the two fists and the Maulerfiend, so they're going to attract a withering amount of fire from any lascannons in the enemy army. Added to this is the fact that sadly, our basic CSM troops are pretty below average. I'd argue you're better off taking Cultists as your troops choices and using those marines to form another havoc squad - perhaps a 10-strong unit with 4 heavy bolters, and a 10-strong unit with missile launchers? Heck, even a unit of havocs with 4 plasma guns riding around in the Rhino would make a decent mobile strike unit to go after objectives, provided you're able to keep the Rhino from getting blasted.

That being said, if you use the Maulerfiend and the Helbrute as a distraction to soak up firepower, then you focus on achieving objectives with a solid base of Havocs and Helbrutes, I don't think you'd do too badly. My advice would be to give everyone a defined role, and then equip them to carry out that role. If that means swapping the Meltas for Lascannons or Reaper Autocannons on your gunline Helbrutes, and maybe consolidating your Heavy Bolter units into one havoc squad, I think you'd do alright.

If you want a thematic and somewhat effective Iron warriors list, i'd say go with a gunline.

I'd reccomend you personally that you get rid of the multi meltas on the Hellbrutes and replace them with reaper autocannons (for slaneshy double stratagem dakka, or other alternatives.)

I'd also cut one rhino.

Havocs with missile launchers are expensive, but thematic, ever since the Autocannon got cheaper the missile launcher is kinda overpriced but still quite flexible. Certainly workable though so i'd say keep em. (or make them 10 man with 4 autocannons and watch as they pick appart anything from infantry up to medium tanks)

I am unsure about the maulerfiend, since it moves up close where it can't be propperly supported by your warpsmith, which allready has two dakka brutes on live support, dakka fiends are also a tad overpriced but i could imagine some heavy Hades autocannon fire could be a good compromise.

You could also drop the second Rhino and form the Plasmagun squad into another line marine squad with Heavy bolters (or autocannons for that matter) and form a decent gunline which would be a good option since the trait is really usefull for gunlines.
OR Drop the plasma gun squad and rhino and take a max squad of autogun cultists. Remember, "Cold and bitter" is a thing, rerolling ones another thing and VotlW also. Also you get acess to tides of traitors and recycling 160 pts is still really good. You could also be a generous or heavy caliber loving warlord and give them 4 Heavy stubbers and entrench them somewhere and reenact WW1. (except that you can ignore morale)

I've been working on a couple of thematic Iron Warriors lists myself as I plan on starting one in the new year. It looks like you have a pretty solid and thematic foundation here, but I might make a few tweaks.

Run the CSM as min. units or max units. Personally I'd go min and use the points elsewhere.

Consider adding a cultist blob of 30-40. Yes this is one of the most overused units in Chaos, but its definitely fluff appropriate for Iron Warriors as they used large numbers of both slaves and conscripts in their companies. It also synergizes well with the IW's warlord trait - cold and bitter - that makes units fearless. As someone who already plays tyranids, I can't tell you how handy it is not to take moral tests.

Swap out a couple of generalist weapons/ units for some specialist ones. I find its useful to have a mix of these types of units and weapons. I think units like havocs get more bang (pun intended) when they are kitted as more of a specialist unit. Heavy bolters for reliable infantry killers, or lascannons for vehicle hunters.

As someone else mentioned, if you want shooty helbrutes, give them longer range weapons. If you want the meltas, put a CC weapon on them and march them up field.

My last suggestion is going to be unpopular, because buildings are unpopular in 8th edition. Drop your second rhino and use the points to put your havocs in a bunker with an icarus lascannon. The bunker will put a high toughness presence on the field which you are currently lacking and it will keep your havocs out of the firing line for a round or two at minimum. We can debate the usefulness of the weapon on top, but at only 25 points I think it pays for itself more often than not. This is also a fluffy option as the Iron Warriors are said the be even better at building forts than tearing them down and most of the assaults come from a fortified position. Deploy your bunker on a backfield objective and use those havocs to provide some fire support without having to worry as much about deepstrike maneuvers.

Hey guys! Thanks for the insights! Here's a new list with the information you guys gave me:


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) [82 PL, 1447pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Legion: Iron Warriors

+ HQ +

Chaos Lord [5 PL, 85pts]: No Chaos Mark, Plasma pistol, Power sword

Warpsmith [5 PL, 76pts]: 3. Unholy Fortitude, Bolt pistol, Flamer, Fleshmetal Exoskeleton, Meltagun, No Chaos Mark, Power axe, Warlord

+ Troops +

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 81pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Chainaxe
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 85pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Chaos Space Marines [5 PL, 80pts]: Icon of Vengeance, No Chaos Mark
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 3x Marine w/ Boltgun
. Marine w/ heavy weapon: Heavy bolter

+ Elites +

Helbrute [7 PL, 112pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Reaper autocannon

Helbrute [7 PL, 112pts]: Mark of Slaanesh, Missile launcher, Reaper autocannon

Helbrute [7 PL, 122pts]: Helbrute fist, Helbrute fist, Mark of Khorne

Helbrute [7 PL, 122pts]: Helbrute fist, Helbrute fist, Mark of Khorne

+ Heavy Support +

Havocs [10 PL, 230pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 5x Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Lascannon

Havocs [10 PL, 190pts]: Mark of Slaanesh
. Aspiring Champion: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
. 5x Havoc w/ boltgun
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon
. Havoc w/ heavy weapon: Autocannon

Maulerfiend [9 PL, 152pts]: Lasher tendrils, Mark of Khorne

[b]++ Total: [82 PL, 1447pts]

So the marines are at minimum strength, just to hold on to objectives. The two fist Hellbrutes and the Maulerfiend will be a distraction while the Havocs and ranged Hellbrutes rain unholy fire upon the enemy. I'm putting the Lord close to the Havocs for the re-roll and the Warpsmith with the ranged Brutes.

I know cultists are used a lot when playing chaos but i don't know if i'm brave enough to paint an additional 30-40 models.

Now that list screams "Iron Warriors" to me! A good solid gunline with small troops units for taking ground (and holding it with heavy weapons). It's under appreciated in Iron Warriors lists these days the true mentality of the siege - once you've broken the walls down, you need something to spearhead the breakthrough and that's exactly what this list has - a maulderfiend and two close combat Helbrutes. I really like it! Let us know how you go.

I like the list, alot actually. The nostalgia days of my Cult of destruction list comes back.

Actually cultists can be really nice thing to do, you can A) be creative as all hell, B) if you use IG parts combined with chaosmarauder bits, GSC, mutations etc. you even could start a R&H allied min detachment for acess to Basilisks, mortars and field artilery. SO not really a loss.

(only recomendation on those cultists, go wild.)

Looks a lot better now! Also looks like a fun list to actually build and paint models for.

The only thing I'm not crazy on are the autocannon havocs. The flat 2 damage is nice, but I've actually found the increased rate of heavy bolters to be better at dealing with infantry over the long run, especially those with good armor saves and/or invulns.

Personally I like the auto cannon. It's not an anti infantry weapon, but it is useful against 2 wound infantry like primaris and terminators, as well as threatening light vehicles and monsters. I would suggest mixing the auto cannons and the lascannons though, as it makes it harder for your opponent to choose a priority target and focus fire it down